Help a Reader: Stuck in a Hated Career

Here's a comment that was left here recently:

I’m finally figuring out that I am about 10 yrs young in my financial maturity (I'm 26, so that makes 16). I'll tell my story for some who need it, and plead for advice regarding my future plans to the kind-hearted souls out there. Any help would really make a difference!

Stage one: Irresponsibility Without Repercussion

I had the opportunity to attend a state school, Rutgers, and a state school up north (that was way more expensive). Since my parents were paying for it, I hadn’t really thought of any benefit to stay 40 miles from home, and in NJ to boot. So off I went north to a second tier school. After school, no debt and things were fine.

One problem though: I majored in philosophy. Knock it if you will, but it has profound impact on my life and society in general. I found out, though, that America is fairly practical in its economic bent. Who would have thought that?

But I’m optimistic. Bounced around at some odd jobs - coach, reporter, lifeguard - and got into a MA program out west. Good news on the esteem front, but this is where I tell of my financial decline.

Stage Two: Ramifications of "Shiny Object" Financial Planning

I took one degree in philosophy in two yrs, not bad, 35K, but when I realized that community college jobs for philosophy were rare (most phil. positions req. PhD) and that full admission to a PhD program w full funding was even rarer (most programs 150-200 apply, 12 in), I then took a degree in English so I could at least get a job. But here's the bomb: I accrued 90K in loans for two MAs. But I was admitted to a PhD program with full funding at a top U for philosophy. Objective 1 completed.

Stage Three: Stuck?

Yet in the interim, I taught English at a comm college and hated it, and now I’m a year into my PhD and have concluded that I don’t ever want to teach. Instead, I would like to pursue studio art, but it seems I'm stuck. Wheels aren't turning and I see the loan people are waiting for my emergence from school. There's no way I can survive out of the situation right now (loans would be 800$ mo.), and there's no way I can dole out 35k x 2yrs for an MFA. You might find this amusing at the thought that here's yet another no pay job. But,- it seems appropriate to state - I’m very talented, have received accolades throughout my life, and have just pushed it aside for after school.

Hm. So any suggestions? I’m on a stipend of 14,000 a yr and cannot dedicate any more time to work (I tutor in most free times and study hours are 12-15 hrs a day, 7 days week, no breaks!). Other option is live with parents, but that situation is somewhat volatile and displeasing all around.

Any comments or answers, again, will make a world of difference; thanks for your time!

What advice do you have for this reader?

Comments

[aaktx]

Well it sounds like you are in a very difficult position in a difficult job market. While being a studio artist or a professional philospher sounds fulfilling, you are reaching a point in your life where practicality is needed. It is very likely you will not be able to have those jobs. Get a practical job like a nurse and pay your loans off.

[Kevin]

So I assume you're going to quit the PhD since it will go nowhere and you'll just be throwing good money after bad?

Clearly no easy way out here, you're just going to have to bite the bullet, find the best paying job you can and work your tail off to pay off the debt. If living with the parents is not an option try finding a buddy with a house that will rent you a room for cheap.

[d.]

I'm a PhD student in History at a Canadian university. I've made it through my undergrad and graduate studies without acquiring any debt, save for the odd credit card bill, which I always pay in full. I do receive a scholarship from my university, but it is well below the poverty line.

What I've done is approach Professors who may be in need of a Research Assistant. Working for my adviser and other faculty members has allowed me to make some extra money, and develop experience in my field. RA positions are also great because you can create your own work schedule. So, although you may be studying 12-15 hours a day (something, quite frankly, I find highly unlikely to be true), you can decide when you want to commit to working for a Prof.

I think you need to do some thinking about what you'd like to do with your life. I've met lots of students who are in graduate school because they want to avoid "the real world". Trying to find a job in academe is tough; trying to find a job outside of academe with a fluffy Philosophy degree will be even tougher.

[Alex]

I agree entirely with the first commenter. You're going to need to switch to a practical job. Maybe switch into a law, accounting or business program. Based on your philosophy background you could mesh well with law. You could also consider English related jobs. I'm thinking editor if you have a knack for it.

I'd think twice before switching to the medical professions. They do represent guaranteed well paying jobs, but often times those jobs seriously suck (long hours and lots of abuse) if you don't have a desire or passion for them. I learned that lesson the hard way.

I think studio art is great. But my suggestion is to find yourself a nice 9-5 job that pays you enough to allow you to get involved with studio art on your own time and on your own terms. Once you have a job and some savings you can always go back for your MFA if thats something you really want to do.

[Stephen]

The whole hating teaching thing is definitely an issue for an English PhD, though I'll point out that teaching experiences can (and do) vary a great deal based on the institution (both type & character) at which you teach!
Studio art sounds fun -- but the couple "odd jobs" you mention don't seem to correlate with this new career path, so I'd strongly encourage you to be very careful before making any big changes.
In general, I'd recommend going with d's recommendation of being an RA (a paid one, mind you) and then making use of the resources of your university to take a few art classes and the like to be sure of your direction. Just as it's best to be looking for a job *while* employed, it's also best to choose a new career path *while* you're making progress on the current one!

[Gavagirl]

I left grad school just short of my MA because I didn't end up liking academia and ran out of money. I did know how to use Word, Visio, and Excel, and learned Photoshop, Acrobat, and a few other apps. I'm working as a technical writer/project coordinator in an IT department now. Trust me, assuming your philosophy degree was from an analytic department (where you got to do a lot of linguistic analysis and logic), and you are reasonable tech-savvy, there is a place for you in information technology. You just need to hunt around a bit, maybe take some temp jobs as an assistant something-or-other in a few departments and pay attention. Maybe it's not what you want to do with your life, but it can make you some money and keep you stable while you are figuring things out. Also, you will have more time to pursue your art and writing than you do now (and yes, I believe you about the 12-15 hour days. The reading load in phil is absolutely unreal).

Who knows, maybe you'll pick up enough skills that you can get your own business plan together one day that will let you use both your creative and analytic skills. Philosophy degrees aren't "fluffy", and there are employers out there who appreciate the skills you have acquired. You just need to learn to sell them.

You can try the RA angle, though I don't know how far you'll get. Most liberal arts departments don't have anything like enough money to pay for such extravagances (even at top universities).

[Nicole]

I think you will have to face harsh reality and get an office job somewhere and start paying your debt. Don't add to you problems by going into more student loan debt just to prolong the inevitable. move in with the family for a year or two, sell the shiny objects (got car payments? sell the car even if it's upside down and buy something cheap for a few hundred dollars that will get you to work and back), be agressive with your debt (not just minimum payments). After two years going to the same office job, you will have a better sense of what you really want to do with your life.

[David]

Maybe, since I'm an English major myself, I'm the only one that finds humor in the fact that, when you discovered philosophy wasn't so practical, you went with English. Whether you improved in terms of practicality is debatable. Believe me, I know. Ah, to be young again and think that majoring in English would be a good idea. At least I didn't go with history, as I was considering for a semester or so.

One thing this does teach us is that, at the age of 18, must people are not even close to being ready to decide what they want to do for the rest of their lives. Yet we are pretty much forced to, unless you want some major inconveniences later in life. If I had it to do over again, boy would I do a lot differently. Sure I can still start over, but I've looked into it and it's more than I have the energy to tackle at this point.

At any rate, things kind of fell in place for me and hopefully they will for you. Though not many English-related jobs are going to pay well, I found one that, along with my wife's better salary (she's a teacher so not THAT much better), allows us to live pretty comfortably. And there are even better ones out there...if I could get them. But the hours and stress level I'm dealing with right now are such that I can pursue my REAL interests in the evenings and on weekends with plenty of energy to spare. This would work well for your desire to do art.

Just don't have kids, whatever you do.

[DMD]

I don't think your correspondent necessarily has to bail on his/her philosophy/English background if s/he still has an interest in the field but doesn't want to teach it. I had a similar situation when I got my MA in history several years ago. Think about what you can do well as a philosophy person... like write and relate to people. How about a job at a museum or a non-profit? Or a job at an academic publisher?

[Jason]

It sounds like you're fighting reality. School isn't a career. Get in...learn...get out...get a job(or start a business)...

If you want to live on your own and pay off your debt, you'll need a job making at least $25k. And that's if you can refrain from all other expenditures. Going out...car...more school debt...

Unless you have a very clear path of where your philosophy and English degrees will take you, I'd say bail now and start getting some experience in a viable industry.

Someone suggested technology. I would agree, but only if you're already drawn to that field. Having an English degree doesn't necessarily mean you want to be a technical writer or business analyst.

I also want to note that I'm also 26. I had 3 years of college before I dropped out. However, I've been working since I was 15, so I had enough experience to land a decent entry-level job. I've since worked my way up to a more interesting job that pays good money.

It all comes down to what YOU want. What is this English PhD going to give you? If there's a specific and realistic job that you have your eyes on, then shoot for it. Otherwise, save your money.

[Independent George]

Given your need for immediate debt relief, getting an office job might not be the right place to start given your experience and education. Yeah, if you're smart & hardworking enough, you'll eventually get the money, but for someone just starting, you don't get paid unless you have the quantitative and/or technical skills. Your first couple years will be doing drudge work for low pay.

What kind of shape are you in? The construction market is kind of tough right now, but there are other labor jobs that will pay better than most office jobs, IF you're willing to work your tail off, accept instructions, and not act superior because of your education. Have you considered policework? If you're willing to go into a little more debt, you could also get EMT certification, or machinery repair. You might even find it a better career than you'd imagined.

[Leigh]

Being in the ivory tower seems nice until you get the rent bill! I suggest that you look into unlikely fields like Independent George recommended. I work at a steel mill and was surprised that the general laborers earn $18 with excellent benefits (like $10K a year in tuition reimbursement). And there are plenty of women and men who do this type of work. Keep your mind open and look for opportunities
On a practical note, if moving in with the parents seems unbearable, then get a roommate or two. Live like you are now and pay down loans like crazy. Don't even bother getting a credit card b/c research shows that even people who pay their balance in full tend to overspend with them. You can do it! Don't despair! As my mom says - How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time! (if that thought grosses you out - then how do you eat an elephant-sized twinkie? One bite at at time!)

[Mike]

In regards to the student loans, you should be able to pay much less. I have 70k in loans for an MBA with Sallie Mae. They offered a 30 year term with the first year interest only. My first year payments were $180 and are now $365. The interest is tax deductible so you may not be in as bad a situation as you thought.

Good Luck.

[Mike]

In regards to the student loans, you should be able to pay much less. I have 70k in loans for an MBA with Sallie Mae. They offered a 30 year term with the first year interest only. My first year payments were $180 and are now $365. The interest is tax deductible so you may not be in as bad a situation as you thought.

Good Luck.

[dino]

Good paying jobs you can get into quickly without having to go back to school:

There's always the military. Don't enlist, being an officer is where its at.

One blue collar job that pays extremely well is working in a power plant. It blue collar and you have to work rotating shift work but pays really well. Mostly unionized and mandatory overtime. One of my friends worked a 12 hr shift and made over $800 that day (all over time at time and a half). If you have any technical (mechanical or electrical) aptitude you can get in (don't necessarily have to have a degree in eng or sci). Rural power plants have a harder time finding labor and will have more openings.

There is also truck driving. The industry as a whole is taking a beating but certain sectors (servicing oil and gas) are taking off right now. They will take anyone that can pass a drug test in western Colorado, western Wyoming, and northwestern Arizona right now.

I can relate somewhat to the position your in. Recently graduated with a degree in Math but don't want to teach.

[Richard]

Seek a career counselor or find a mentor, now. I recommend both. You are drifting with no plan. While drifting you're racking up enough debt to weigh you down into you're 40's or 50's. Your pursuit of knowledge is noble but not practical without a set plan.

[JC]

I'm a fan of the military. The opportunity is amazing there. Always a need for quality officers. Satisfying work in the field of your choice. Service to country during a time of conflict. Solid pay & extraordinary benefits. Not to mention a career you can be proud of. It works for me. Been around the world twice. Been places and seen things that most people can't imagine (both good and bad). What do you want to say to your grandkids many years from now when they ask you the question "Hey Gramps, where were YOU during the fight of your generation?" I'm able to say: "I was THERE... with the Marines!" Semper Fi.

JC

[Jon]

For those who have already commented, thank you much! - such varied and helpful advice! At this point, I'd just like to correct a slight oversight and made a few comments.

I had a plan to get my phd in philosophy and teach college since sophomore in college. My error was perhaps paying for two degrees at such a high cost. The English might have been a further error. My thoughts at the time was to take an MA in english to have better marketability for teaching community college and to better my writing for my philosophical research (most pilosophy writers are rarely noted for their grace). Also, at present I am in a philosophy phd program (not English) after my initial teaching stint at college. So there has been a consistent thread.

First, Mike, your comment regarding the tax deductible is very helpful, thanks. And d. I think that US programs in graduate school are somewhat different from Canada. I think this was already pointed out before, but it seems important to note for other readers in the US. Budget cuts in the humanities fluctuate and always seem to affect our departments more than others, say the sciences. We've lost various TAships to students further into the program. This might explain the 50% attrition rate in most areas in the humanities such as history, English, etc.

Second, DMD, it seems you have an eye for detail. Yes, this seems to be the biggest problem for those who major in a subject (whether grad or undergrad - but the former seems more problematic due to opportunity costs and time) that is most likely to conclude in a teaching position. My case is common, and certainly one that many encounter. The basic features here are applicable to most other highly specialized subjects - which seem to be often theoretically based pursuits. So the question might be reformulated in broader terms to account for this broad scope: what do those highly specialized in one field do when it becomes impossible to continue (for personal, health or other reasons)? It might be noted that although my case, or others like it, seems dire, I would guess doctors (or any other similar science) are perhaps the most handicapped if forced from, or leave, their profession. In contrast, it seems students in the humanities have some advantage, due to their versatile nature. This, I beleive, is some comfort to those who have "fluffy" degrees.

Before concluding, I'd like to pose an open question to all readers (but perhaps more appropriately directed to the gentleman who made the initial suggestion, Independent George). Do you know the cost for certification and pay as an EMT? If so, have you or anyone you know done it? Is it worth the effort? This seems to be a job that would work well with scheduling at this point.

[No Debt Plan]

First thing that pops into my mind is $800/month doesn't really sound all that bad at least starting out. You're essentially renting an apartment for your education... so to offset it, get a roommate. Or two. Or three. Just a thought.

[jane]

I am saying this as someone who has done pretty much what you are doing, and at 48 I am paying harshly for it still. While you are clearly intellectually intelligent, you are not practical, your head is in the clouds about your future. You are looking for something esoteric because you still think you will find that holy grail. Sooner or later you will have to get practical, it will either be on your terms or if you refuse to do it yourself, then it will be on someone else's. Sorry to be so blunt, it's not going to get any nicer. You don't need any more degrees. Degrees do not equal pay, or even a job. Start working NOW, at two jobs if you have to, and the hell with MAs and PHDs, you don't have much time, economic trends are against you in a big way. Honestly, good luck.

[jane]

I am saying this as someone who has done pretty much what you are doing, and at 48 I am paying harshly for it still. While you are clearly intellectually intelligent, you are not practical, your head is in the clouds about your future. You are looking for something esoteric because you still think you will find that holy grail. Sooner or later you will have to get practical, it will either be on your terms or if you refuse to do it yourself, then it will be on someone else's. Sorry to be so blunt, it's not going to get any nicer. You don't need any more degrees. Degrees do not equal pay, or even a job. Start working NOW, at two jobs if you have to, and the hell with MAs and PHDs, you don't have much time, economic trends are against you in a big way. Honestly, good luck.

[Jabroni]

How come noone has given the obvious advice? GROW UP

[Jim]

Information on EMT career:
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos101.htm
Note that median annual wages were $27k in 2006.

You might also consider a skilled construction trade such as electrician, plumber, sheet metal worker, etc. Union jobs can pay pretty well in construction for skilled trades. You can start at $10-20 /hr for an apprentice and work up to $20-40 at journeyman. Course wages vary a lot depending on location and trade.

Jim

[Jim]

Frankly I think your practical financial choice right now given your situation and education is to go into teaching. So I'd seriously consider if you can find a job in teaching that will work for you. If you really can't stomach teaching period then abandon school entirely and go get a real job. You might not feel that you like teaching that much but consider the pros / cons of every other job out there and maybe teaching won't seem so bad to you.

Jim

[Andy]

Just sit tight and wait for Democrats to get their way. Then the rest of us can pay off your debts. What's $90,000 spread out over millions of taxpayers, right?

Or... move in with your parents, sell your car, and work several jobs at once and just knock it out. The military was a good suggestion too, I think.

[J in FL]

Andy,

lol

[Jason S]

Here's an idea from someone with a couple of English degrees:

Consider working in a college admissions office.

The upside:
+ Using both oral and written communications skills
+ Experience with all kinds of useful computer applications
+ The chance to set annual and long-term goals and achieve them (always good for resumes)
+ The opportunity to work in an academic environment
+ The insight gained from working on "the other side" of an institution
+ The bonus of working with an intelligent, hard-driving team (if you're at least a little competitive)
+ A new kind of connection to the communities in your region

The downside (note, however, that all can be seen as positives by a certain kind of person):
+ Travel. Worst at private schools. Community colleges and regional state schools require the least.
+ Surprisingly high expectations. You held to account for your time and results every day, month, semester, and year.

There may be others--I'm sure there are. But the point is that I have training in Medieval Lit and have found a very happy home in Admissions. I use the verbal and critical thinking skills my academic training gave me; I've learned a ton about how colleges really work; the people are unusually smart and hard-working; I get to work on a pretty campus that's very well-liked in my community.

Anyway, enough about me. Best wishes!

[sudheer]

Go to Japan or Korea ror the summer and teach english. Will be a good experience and pays well.

[Kimberly]

Just a quick note to let you know your article will be included in the 66th Money Stories Carnival.

Thanks!