Help a Reader: Union Dues Worth the Cost?

Here's an email I recently received from a reader:

My wife just started her second year as a middle-school teacher and, once again, the union sign-up sheets are being passed around at school.  We spent a total of $619 last year in dues for the national (NEA), state (PSEA), and local (**EA) unions.  Although I'm not well-versed on the benefits of teachers' unions, I really haven't found anything tangible to show for it and we're wondering if it would be wise to drop her membership.  My thinking is the $50+ per month we're paying to the union could go toward investments, saving for a house, etc...  Any thoughts?

As I told him, I have NO IDEA how to answer this question (aren't these sort of dues mandatory?) Any way, anyone out there have some expertise in this area?

Comments

[Mark B.]

PAY THE DUES!!!

The teachers union is VERY STRONG, and not being part of it will ruin her relationship with her co-workers as she will be looked upon as an outsider.

That union has brought your wife FAR MORE BENEFITS than the $619 it is costing her.

Let me guess, she has a pension, healthcare for life, tenure, etc.??? Those would not be there if not for the union. Be thankful for it and pay the $$$.

[Steve]

Yes, pay the dues. The union is a solid investment in her career. They are fighting for her pay raises, her pension, her insurance. The dues are well worth it.

healthcare for life... haha. Maybe if you retired 10-15 years ago but not anymore

[Dangger]

in my area. you have the choice to be part of the union or not. BUT you must still pay the fee =P

[Mark B.]

Here in Michigan teachers still get healthcare for life if they put in their 30 years. Even brand new teachers get that promise. Like I said, the union is VERY STRONG.

Without the union they would be getting a 401(k), no job guarantees, etc.

PAY THE DUES!!!!

[Jim]

In general the union benefits her by collectively bargaining for wages and benefits. Can she readily get paid more with a non-union job elsewhere? Unlikely. So in principle the union is to her benefit because it helps get her higher wages.

What happens if she doesn't pay the dues? Is that even an option for her job? It varies from state to state and situation to situation.

Joining the union may just be a formality. She may still be responsible for paying the dues.

HEre's a related article:
http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/111-09022008-1584598.html

PSEA is the Pennsylvania state union so I assume she's in Pennsylvania. Accordiing to the article in PA, if she's under collective bargaining agreement she may still have to pay the dues / fees to the union whether or not she officially joins the union.

There may also be other benefits to the union that the dues carries. Many unions have pension plans, liability insurance, unemployment benefits, health care plans, etc.

[J]

Without the unions she may actually have to be good at her job not to get fired. Might as well freeload with the rest of them.

[Mr. ToughMoneyLove]

Most unions (including teacher's unions) have local operatives whose job it is to make your life miserable if you don't toe the union party line, including paying dues. Your wife should either get used to it, teach at a private school where individual merit trumps the "let's all be mediocre together" union mindset, or choose a career where she controls her own destiny.

[MasterPo]

I worked in a union shop for several years a couple of years ago (both as labor then as management). When I was in the union I got jack-diddle-squat for my dues! They wouldn't even fight for me because I was still junior and didn't have 20+ years in. But they were happy to take my dues each pay check and tell me how lucky we were to have a union!

OTOH, my mother worked in a union environment (NYC school teacher) for 15 years and did get a lot of benefits from it that helped at retirement time.

IMO you need to carefully analyze what your union dollars are *really* getting for you. Each union is different, some much better than others.

[Jim]

I'd strongly agree with MasterPo's last comment there: "IMO you need to carefully analyze what your union dollars are *really* getting for you. Each union is different, some much better than others."

Union jobs do generally pay higher. In general average teacher pay is 5% higher for unionized teachers than nonunion. With average teacher pay in Pennsylvania of $53k thats a $2650 differential. Starting salary for teachers in Penn. is $34k so 5% is $1700 extra than nonunion

[Laura]

Pay the dues my mother and a friend (teachers in NC) and they wish they had a union. One county makes errors on pay and they only get paid once a month, which is nerve racking. The other county as HR problems with teacher re-hiring.

[Fred @ Smart Savings 101]

It is too bad that teachers have to belong to these outdated institutions. The Union is very good at getting average teachers average pay. Unfortunately, good teachers can't earn more than average teachers. It is also unfortunate that our children have to endure bad teachers who can't be fired.

[Bad_Brad]

It depends on if the state is an "agency shop" state or not. In an agency shop state, she would not have to join the Union or pay Union dues. In a non-agency shop state, she will have no choice.

[Alan]

My mother is an educator and very active in her local union. Where she teaches, you have the option of not paying the dues to the local organization, but the dues to the state and federal organizations are mandatory so you may not save nearly as much as you think...of all the dues that my mother pays, the local organization's dues are by far the smallest.

Since the local fees aren't mandatory, many people choose not to pay them. However, if they choose not to pay they can't receive any of the services that the local union provides...so if you have a problem with administration, the school board, or a student/parent, you are on your own to fight it out. I know there have been teachers who have come to my mother in a panic because they received an unfair review or had some issue with students, and my mother has been unable to help them because the didn't pay the dues. I'm guessing your wife is not tenured since she is only in her second year teaching so if she receives an unfair review and is terminated because of it, it will be worth it to have the union on her side. I'm sure you could hire a lawyer in that situation, but its probably much easier and much cheaper to pay the dues.

[ZT]

Unions are especially helpful when things go bad. Personally, I was laid off and the union got me a extra two months compensation and benefits while I found work. That was more than worth the union dues I paid right there above-and-beyond the additional compensation I received in the years preceding the layoff. Additionally, I got 4 weeks notice as was mandated in our contract which gave me additional time to plan. It is rare to find a non-union employer who always gives that much notice.

Pay the dues, help everyone get better pay, benefits, and treatment.

[notsosure]

Unions were essential in the early twentieth century, when many workers were exploited terribly. They are merely parasitical now.

Teachers' unions are especially unfortunate, because they are perhaps the main reason the mythology of industrial schooling hasn't vanished. "We need more money FOR THE KIDS." but guess who ends up getting it--the same mediocre (if often well-intentioned) teachers in the same mediocre system.

If you're in a union shop, though, you have to join, because as others have mentioned, it is not safe to not join.

[Meoip]

As a political and financial institution unions have a net negative effect, they are good for the members but often harm end users. That being said socially you are pretty much forced into joining the union. You will be labeled and outcast by members and administrators alike. My mother didn't join teacher unions and still get's hurt by it her former co-workers won't hire her now because they remember. She has lost out on 10 years of good teaching jobs and promotions to save money and take a stand against harming the educational process. Don't ruin a good career just to do what is right.

[Stephen]

In California atleast, I have several teacher friends for whom their local union has been quite helpful in dealing with some difficult situations, so the teacher's union can't be all bad.
That said, some of those same friends (and several others) have stated that they'd prefer *not* to be in the union, but that it isn't really an option career-wise.
Short summary: I'd pay the dues.

[york]

Unions are a joke from the industrial revolution times. There is no use for them today. What good do they provide? Ensure you get the same 3% raise as your co-worker who slacks off? On the point above about pensions and healthcare benefits...these are bound to decrease over time. There is no way that municipalities can continue to pay these absurd benefits to employees who only work 9 months of the year.

[guinness416]

My mother always says that the teachers' union she's a member of is very beneficial. But she doesn't teach where you are. It certainly helps with the networking always being pushed on sites like this too. Can you discuss it with other local teachers? Or an online teachers forum of some sort? I'm not sure this blog is exactly the forum to get the feedback you'd want to base your decision on ...

[Lisa]

Taxpayer attitudes like York's are the main reason that teacher's unions are so crucial. $50/month to have someone fight to protect your interests on a local, state and national level seems a small investment compared to what you stand to lose in your benefits package.

[Everyday Finance]

It's virtually impossible to exist in a Union environment without joining the ranks. Your life would be miserable.

Granted, unions get their employees wages/benefits above the fair market rate. That's just great for them, lousy for American competitiveness in all industries, not just teaching. It'll catch up eventually.

My wife was a teacher for years. Get prepared for the rah-rah Dem stuff (that's where most of the dues go, you have no say) and god forbid you disagree with a liberal statement in the break room. You'll be shunned/chastised.

Best advice...keep work and life separate, pay the dues and go with the flow. It's only a job.

[daniele]

i would recommend sticking with the union - for me, the money i paid into was well worth it when i needed the services of the union. I highly recommend every teacher join the union for a variety of reasons - like you never know when a parent or student might have it out for you and go after your job!

[york]

Lisa - taxpayer attitude or not, less employee provided benefits are the way the world is going. Just because teachers are covered by a union does not change this fact. It is only a matter of time before the economics catches up with the reality. Cities will simply not be able to afford the benefits.

Look at what is happening with the big Detroit automakers and their employees who are covered by unions. The union contracts promise benefits which the companies simply cannot afford. In turn they cannot compete with the asian companies that do not have the cost. The result is job losses.

The unions can promise anything they want and members can continue to pay...but the simple fact is when the money runs out, it's out. Employees would have been better served keeping their $50 month.

[MasterPo]

Everyone talks about union protection. What about protecting the slime? The dead-wood?

When I worked in a union shop, waste and dead-wood was EVERYWHERE! As a manager there, the inmates ruled the institution (so to speak). The union defended anyone's behaviour. Comingin late, leaving early, disappearing for 30-40 minutes at a time, walking out for the day for no reason, refusing to follow instructions, taking days and even weeks off without clearence or permission, etc etc etc. There was nothing management could do. You can't fire them and they knew it (not that I really wanted to fire anyone).

Some people say there are places were union and management work hand-in-hand. I think it's like Big Foot or the Loche Ness monster - some people claim to have seen them but I haven't. :-(

[Jon @capitalistmven.com]

If there is any way to not pay the dues, DO NOT pay them. Unions are the reason for south-sourcing and out-sourcing in this country. They are socialist organizations that protect the unproductive. By not paying the dues (even if you still have to pay the collective bargaining fees) you are voting against these socialists. Believe me, more of your coworkers are likely to feel the same as you. Yes, one person can start a trend. The union provides no benefits to competitive and productive employees. I still remember one of my best high school teachers had opted out of the union. He was a great guy, frequently got teaching awards and features in the newspaper. It is certainly possible to be successful in teaching without joining the union.

[Alison @ This Wasn't In The Plan]

I taught for one year before leaving to stay home with my son. I did not join the union, mainly because I didn't get around to it and then it became apparent that I wouldn't be returning to the field for a long time anyway. I did constantly get hounded by co-workers trying to get me to join. The main reason they gave me was that if a parent were to press charges against me, they could help me out. A good benefit, yes, and probably I would have joined if I'd intended to stick around (to get everyone off my back if for no other reason). From what little I know about teacher's unions, I'm not too big of a fan, though. I hate the fact that they will fight to the death to help you keep your job. My opinion is that if I'm doing a crappy job, I deserve to get fired.

[Meg]

You have to figure out what you believe and what you stand for, not just what's in it for you if you join. To use an extreme example, you and your wife might end up being paid more if your state turned communist, but does that mean you're going to go out and join the communinst party and pay communist dues? God, I hope not. That's why I'm not voting for Obama even though my personal tax burden would (allegedly) go down under his proposals. Do some research and learn what unions are really doing to our country.

[T from PA]

From my experiences (and my S/O's) the PSEA/local unions have been more of a huge leech and offered NO PROTECTION from a wrongful dismissal my S/O had a few years back. "EXCEEDS EXPECTATIONS" on all reviews but not not retained by district for a position to be filled by another new hire. They said "Nothing we can do. The district's HR Dept doesn't seem to have copies of any of your reviews..." We had copies, but they still refused to help.

NO THANKS!

$600+/year for some slightly better benefit options and competetive salaries. Still not totally feeling it. Sorry. Don't get me wrong. Unions started for good reasons, but their value seems to have degraded over the years.

All that being said, socially (and teachers are way social), you need to in the union or your CO-Workers will think/say/do nasty things to you.

[john l.]

If you are happy being average it is great. But each year average goes lower. No reason to be better. Just go with the flow? Baloney! Do your job well and you will be taken care of.

[garyatk]

You can give up your membership rights but still have to let the union represent you at a pro-rata cost of what the union costs are to represent you. Usually a 25 to 30% reduction in your dues.

The biggest benefit is that the union has no power to discipline you if you ever do something against thier wishes like cross a picket line as happened to me at UPS as a Teamster. My fellow co-workers who stayed working were fined about 10k once the strike was settled. Me, nothing, I wasn't a member. A lot of my co-workers don't like me, and I can assure you the Teamsters HATE me, but I don't like union tactics and politics and I love my job. Works for me!

[Matt]

It is 8:30 pm, Eastern time. My fiance, a high school teacher in West Philadelphia, is in her office right now working on grading papers, getting next week's schedule ready to turn in tomorrow morning, and other general paperwork. She is also studying for her Master's classes, of which she returned from 20 minutes ago and will graduate from (finally!) in the spring. She will be working until at least 10 p.m., as she has every night since school started last week. She has to deal with 14-18-year-olds with raging hormones, many of whom read at an elementary-school level, difficult-to-nonexistent parents, lack of air conditioning in the summer and lack of heat in the winter, bars on the windows, broken copiers, a computer that barely turns on, no lab equipment (she teaches science), and the incredible bureaucracy of the Philadelphia School District. She is given a $100 stipend to purchase school supplies...for the entire year. We will spend between $600 and $1,000 of our own money for supplies. She makes less than $40,000 a year. After all of that miserableness, you wouldn't believe the beaming smile on her face when she comes home and tells me how she managed to filter through all the noise and somehow connect with a struggling student, or made an entire class excited to actually learn something. It makes me proud to hear about her hard work deriving her such happiness. She has a degree in Biology and minors in Math and Political Science and is smart and feisty as hell. She could have done anything she wanted, but she chose to teach, and teach in an inner city, because it's what she loves.

So please, continue to tell me about the lazy teachers who only work 9 months out of the year. It's awesome, and so respectful.

[york]

Cry me a river. She is probably a new teacher starting off and has to "put in her time". In a couple years she will have her masters and will be more used to the routine. Bottom line is teachers are one of the most overpaid professions out there. That is not the average view, but where else can you get 3 or 4 months of the year off and still make $40K.

[pharmboy]

to matt:

and don't you think she deserves better pay than teachers who get paid more than her simply for working there longer? if school choice was ubiquitous, teachers who were worth more would get paid more...gov't employees are a joke, they couldn't pay me enough to spend 40 hours every week of my life in that environment.

[notsosure]

Matt's fiancee's students are lucky to have her, but even with a good teacher, there's really no evidence that our current system is a good way to go about learning. It's really about a place for kids so the adults can work. I taught in the public schools for 15 years, and I knew a handful of teachers like Matt's wife; most were not like her. The unions spend millions to distract us from the miserable results.