How Can "Rich" People Afford College for Their Kids?

Here's an interesting question left on my post titled Who Pays for College -- Parents, Kids, or Both? Round 5:

What should so called "rich" parents do about the fact that their income/savings will not allow their children to receive adequate loans to cover their education? If we are going to say that it is the child's responsibility, then why is the government determining who can get loans based on the parent's wealth?

I have a friend whose family didn't pay for any college costs, and even later said they had in fact saved the money to pay but just decided not to do it. While it might have helped build some character, it also resulted working lots of extra hours during school, probably not doing quite as well academically, and not being able to pursue some extra-curricular activities. All of these would have helped the pursuit of an advanced degree. They did fine anyways, but still there is some resentment that they didn't even help at all when they obviously could have eased the burden.

This is an interesting question to me because we're facing the same issue. Our income and net worth will likely mean that our kids will get very little need-based help when it comes to funding college expenses (which is a pretty big source of funds.) And we're not the "we make a million dollars per year" sort of rich either. But our net worth and income places us on the higher end of the scale and thus we're classified as "rich." So what are our alternatives?

Here's how I'm tackling the issue:

1. We'll take whatever steps we can to save as much on college costs as possible. For some suggestions on how to do this, see Five Ways to Reduce College Costs and 10 Ways to Reduce College Costs.

2. We're saving a very good amount in but Coverdell accounts and 529s for each child. If we keep up the rate we're going, we may have enough to pay for all their college costs if we want to.

3. We're going to work with our kids as they approach college prep age and try to get as many academic-based scholarships as possible. One of our baby sitters got a full-ride scholarship to a very nice local college because of her scores on the ACT test. Of course, we can't count on this being a solid option, but we'll do everything we can to make the most of it if any of our children show that sort of promise.

Comments

[Kristen]

My brother and I were very blessed that my parents and grandparents felt it was very important to save for our education/future. They set up trust funds in our name. My parents started with a small amount of money they inherited but over 10+ years it grew and by the time we headed off to out of state schools it was more than enough to cover the costs. I only graduated from college 2 years ago so I understand the enourmous cost of schools these days. I was able to get several scholarships. Now that I am out of school the money that was left is now mine to use. I have not used any of it other than to put a downpayment on a house and help pay for my husbands law school tuition. Because of this gift my parents and grandparents have given us I did not have debt to worry about when I left school. Therefore I am now putting money away whenever I can. In turn if in the future my parents were in need I would have the means to help them. It is amazing how just like everything else you talk about a little savings invested early on can go a long way towards paying for school down the road. I am so glad my parents thought ahead and were able to support us through school.

[Katy McKenna]

We were in the odd position of having a middle income for most of our married life, until right before our first child entered college. We saved NO money for college, but figured they would get some assistance. Then our income soared when we became self-employed. We qualified for NO assistance for any of the three children. The oldest scored at the top on his PSAT test (the one you take during your junior year and only once--make sure you show up that day!) and got a full ride to a public university. We paid cash on the line for the other two---and it hurt! We did not bother filling out the FAFSA after the first one, as it was a waste of time. But I'm so glad the kids don't have student loans to repay. My daughter married a man with significant student loans, and they are being SO conscientious about paying them down so they can start their family with less debt. I admire their attitude and dedication to get this debt knocked out.

[Miranda]

While we are helping save up for some college costs for our son, my husband and I both feel that he should be largely responsible for his tuition. Both of us received academic and leadership scholarships and our parents helped pay for housing. I had a part-time job on campus, and later as a resident adviser. It worked well for us, teaching us to take ownership of our education, while at the same time our parents were of assistance.

[Jake]

The government does not determine that a student cannot get loans. The government determines that a student cannot benefit from taxpayer-subsidized, taxpayer-guaranteed loans.

[MasterPo]

I dunno about all the "needs" talk. I know many 20-somethings, single, with very low incomes (low to mid 30k's at best) who can't get student loans, grants, scholarships etc. and have to put tutition on their credit cards at very high interest. If they don't qualify for some kind of aid I don't know who does.

As a side note too, foreign born kids get free rides all the time. My wife's step-sister was born in Vietnam. She doesn't look Asian (most people think she's Italian), is as American as I am, but because she has a Vietnam birth certificate and was able to put down Vietnamese as the primary language in the home she got a 100% free ride through college and law school.

Gotta love it.

[rdub98]

I'm not taking the chance on my son's ability to get a scholarship. I plan on paying all of his tuition because I want him to be able to concentrate on his studies and do better than his father did. I don't want him to get out of school with the stress of having to pay off student loans. He deserves a better life than his parents, in my opinion. If he gets scholarships, then all the better, but if he doesn't I don't want him stressing about it.

[Kevin]

We're going to try to save up for our kids' education, but not at the cost of retirement. I plan on sitting them down early in high school and telling them if they want to go to college to work hard in H.S. and go for every scholarship they can and let them have any leftover savings we've accrued for them. That's what my parents did for me and I think it worked.

[escapee]

While I don't agree with paying 100% of your child's college expenses, it's a good idea to save a little and try to help them. My parents saved nothing for me, although my father *certainly* could have.

My parents were divorced and no one contributed one cent to either my bachelor's or master's degrees. While I do agree that it builds character, it was incredibly hard for me to do all of the work required while holding down multiple jobs. And I still had 30k in debt when I graduated.

I'm VERY resentful to this day. I barely speak to my father or his parents. They could have helped me but chose not to. Now they want to see me (and my son) but I could care less about them.

Just a word of caution- help as much as you can. It's not fun to start off in life saddled with so much debt especially when it could have been prevented with a little bit of selflessness on the part of parents and grandparents.

[MasterPo]

Can someone explain this to me:

Here and in other articles about paying for college a large number of people say things like "While I don't agree with paying 100% of your child's college expenses, it's a good idea to save a little and try to help them" (not singling out this particular person just using it as an example).

*Why* not pay 100% if you can? Even if you have to stretch a bit to do it?

Besides the *possible* character building issue (and I'm not convinced of that), what else is the thinking here?

[BenG]

And something that I can't figure out...

Most of the comments related to government programs are generally "Government handouts bad!", "Government programs bad!" and "Government spending wasteful and bad!". However, when it comes to college financial aid and assistance most of the comments seem to bemoan the fact that there isn't enough for the commenter in question. So which is it? Because you can't have it both ways.

[escapee]

I'll tell you exactly why not to pay 100% of your kids college expenses: *some*, not all, kids feel entitled and place no worth on the gift of tuition because they have no personal investment in it. I know a bunch of these people- some of them work under me, and I went to school with them as well. They think that the world owes them a living because they have never had to work hard for anything. They come in late, leave early, don't produce much, have to be told what to do explicitly on every single project, and the list goes on. Consequently, they make far less money than I do (ie they work under me), although we have the same degrees, number of years worked, and credentials. Do you think that my boss doesn't notice who is the hard worker and who isn't? Don't do your kids a disservice. Money does not grow on trees, college degrees are not free, and hard work pays off.

[MasterPo]

Escapee - I agree. However, in that case I think it's a failing of the parents who haven't instilled the value of a dollar in their kids and let them become spoiled brats.

[Llama Money]

Master Po - I'm with the "don't pay 100%" crowd. I plan to allow my son to continue to live in my home during college, and provide free room and board. He will also be welcome to eat meals at home without contributing. As far as direct financial assistance, I won't be providing any. Paying for one's own college is a perfect chance to build character. If you work hard to pay for your own stuff ( car, college, etc ), it's important to you. It matters. You care.

Giving my son that will help him far, far more than a free ride to school ever would. Once he's graduated and swimming in student loans, I may send some cash his way to help pay down some of the debt, if I'm financially able. But I won't tell him that beforehand, and he'll need to plan to do without it.

[escapee]

Master Po- I think it's the same thing: work = dollar. If you don't instill the value of hard work you don't instill the value of a dollar. They are one and the same.

[Rick]

I find it interesting to note the entitlements that people feel entitled to. Listen, if you choose to go to college, you can't expect the government to pay for it. You can't expect your parents to pay for it. You may a decision, you live with the consequences. I chose to go to a private university. And I paid for it. All of it. Myself.

Personally, I don't plan on paying for my kids' education. I know everyone has their counterexamples, but in my experience, everyone I knew in college whose parents paid for their tuition just goofed off and partied all the time. They did not care about their grades. Since my college education was a personal investment, I cared deeply about making good grades and learning and studying as hard as I could.

If you think it is unfair that "rich" people don't get government assistance, I agree. Life isn't fair. Deal with it. I plan on teaching my kids as early as possible how the government screws hard-working middle-class citizens out of their money (while bailing out the rich Wall St. bankers, but that's another story). But this just goes back to the entitlement concept. I'm sorry other people get lucky and the government gives them handouts. But I plan on teaching my kids the value of hard work, and working to gain success.

Finally, I strongly believe that if we do have scholarships, they ought to go to the best and the brightest, not the poorest. Sorry to not be politically correct, but I knew dumb people who were at college just because they got scholarships for being poor. Well, no amount of money changes the fact that they were simply dumb and couldn't handle an intellectually challenging environment. On the flip side, I also knew smart people who simply couldn't afford to go to college. I believe scholarships should be handed out based on merit, scholastic aptitude, etc. We should be encouraging the movers and shakers of the next generation. We should be training those who will make a real difference in the next decade or two.

[Sarah]

Surprisingly, I agree with Master Po on this one. If you haven't managed to instill in your kid either the curiosity to enjoy college for its own sake or the work ethic to apply himself there for the financial benefits of a degree (allowing for the ordinary mistakes of young people), then you screwed your kid over long before any decisions were made about college funding, and making him pay for college isn't going to compensate for your total failure to instill in him any character.

Most of my college costs were covered by scholarship--my family was, at the best, at the very bottom edge of the lower middle class, and I did well in school. I valued my college education because it was a great intellectual experience and because I had no intention of coming home to the old neighborhood. I did work-study for my pocket money, about ten hours a week, and held summer jobs to cover those expenses. Making me work a zillion more hours during the school year to cover my parents' relatively small contribution couldn't have made me value my education any more. All it would have done is hurt my grades (I did well enough for a free ride at a prestigious graduate school) and/or encumbered me with so much debt that it would have been impossible for me to pursue the profession I had chosen at the time.

(I see this in my current profession all the time. Want to know why most of the smart lawyers are off working in big corporate litigation instead of being prosecutors or legal aid lawyers? Massive debt. When your loan payments are upwards of $1000/mo. (and for many, it's well upwards of that), there aren't too many jobs left open to you.)

Seriously, I do not get why everyone assumes that their children will be dullards and slackards in college--and why they don't think that reflects pretty poorly on them.

[escapee]

No, not paying for all of your kids college is a *continuation of an ongoing program* to have the child understand that money comes from work and that knowledge is something that is gained by hard work. (My son is very young and we've already started this program with him.)

It's neither a last ditch effort to teach something that has never been taught before, nor a vote of no confidence in the child.

[MasterPo]

Rick - I find it interesting that apparently you and many others feel their responsibility for their kids ends at High School graduation. Up until then you paid for most of the things your kids needed (food, clothes, medicine, etc) to raise them to be able to care for themselves. In this day and age a college degree is *essential* to a life time of decent earnings and therefore self reliance. So why is paying for school any different than paying for your kids clothes?

Sarah - Thank you. :-)

[doublecheck]

Be careful about not filling out a FAFSA at all. Many colleges require you to submit a FAFSA to qualify for merit-based as well as need-based aid. I received a full-tuition, merit-based scholarship at an expensive private college that required me to submit a FAFSA each year to renew.

[guinness416]

Per Sarah: "Seriously, I do not get why everyone assumes that their children will be dullards and slackards in college--and why they don't think that reflects pretty poorly on them"

Ha! No kidding. Of course, as ever on money blogs, people are saying that *other people's* kids are the slackers, not their little angels. I also agree with Master Po on this one. I worked nights in a bar, got nothing from my folks, paid to send myself round the world, walked uphill both ways in the snow, blah blah. But there were certainly plenty of kids who got a lot of family support who worked just as hard (and harder) and have got great careers to show for it.

[Jim]

Interesting topic. If a child doesn't qualify for aid its generally cause they and/or their parents have enough income or assets to afford college on their own. So they don't NEED the government aid. If a parent is in that situation with high income and refuses to spend anything on college then that is their choice. Children are not entitled to free college.

Personally I think both parents and students should contribute to college expenses. I don't think a 100% free ride from the parents is the best, since anyone is more likely to lack motivation and feel less pressure to succeed if they're spending "someone elses money". When you are in college you're 18 and an adult and I see no reason that someone in college shouldn't be able to contribute. College is an investment in their future and they should have a stake in it and see the benefit and need to fund it. I say that as a generalization, and I'd make exceptions on case by case basis.

As Jake said, the government doesn't determine who gets loans. They determine who qualifies for government subsidized need based loans. Anyone can apply for a hopefully qualify for a private student loan regardless of their financial situation.

I also agree with Ben that tone towards government entitlement programs seems much radically different when we're talking about college aid.

Masterpo, re: " foreign born kids get free rides all the time. ... because she has a Vietnam birth certificate and was able to put down Vietnamese as the primary language in the home she got a 100% free ride through college and law school." There has to be more to that story. What was the name of the program or scholarship she got??

Jim

[MasterPo]

Jim - I don't know. That was long before I met my wife. I do know that when I was in college the school had program after program after program of non-repaying financial aid for foreign visa and foreign born/now resident students as well as those who could demonstrate that English was a second language in their family. I don't want to dwell on this topic per se. An entire article and discussion could be written about it. Just mentioning it as a demonstration of the inequities in the system.

[Sarah]

Knowledge does come from hard work. What do you think happens when a young person has to pour a huge amount of his energy just into financially supporting himself? That's a lot less hard work that he can invest in his studies. A single, healthy adolescent can surely carry a 10-15-hour work-study job during the term without jeopardizing his studies, but don't tell me anything more doesn't stand a good chance of harming his grades. I don't see what's inconsistent about expecting a student to invest himself fully in earning the grades (or doing the other work) that will lead to the best opportunities after college. If your kid already understands the value of the dollar and the importance of hard work, your picking up tuition so that he stands the best chance of doing well post-degree is hardly going to change that.

I think many people don't appreciate (a) just how much college actually costs these days (costs have significantly outstripped inflation for decades now) and (b) just how competitive it is to gain entrance into the professional middle class. There's no soft landing for kids with mediocre grades from mediocre schools anymore. The middle class is falling apart. I completely understand folks who just don't have the money, and I can also understand that retirement is a competing demand, but the "must do it to instill character" approach I just do not get. It's not in touch with current reality.

[Anitra]

I think the key is to impress upon a student just how their choices will affect the cost of going to school; whether that cost is in money, or time spent at a job, or effort spent studying in order to get/maintain scholarships (even the "Bank of Mom & Dad" scholarship).

Encouraging a teenager to "reach for the stars" or "go to the best school you can get into" without ALSO helping them think through just how they're going to pay for it - that's a recipe for disaster.

I think this is a major reason why my teenage brother-in-law and sister-in-law are going to a local community college and living at home; their older brother (my husband) has impressed upon them that it is NOT WORTH IT to go to an expensive private school (like he did) because of the cost they'll end up bearing (like he is). (Long story short, his parents couldn't afford to help at all, even though it looked on paper like they could.)

[P]

Jim - I believe the reason the tone of the discussion on the college aid as an entitlement vs. things like welfare is that the government gains much more from encouraging college education than they do by providing welfare assistance. Private loans often have interest rates over 10% and are less flexible on repayment timing so even though they might be available they make college unreasonably expensive. Also, private loans may require a co-signer whereas government loans do not. Remember the question was about loans, just one type of financial aid, not free money.

I don't think we are talking about free college from the government, just affordable loans to be able to go to college. If a "rich" parent decides not to support the child's education expenses then that child should have some way to get the same loans that the other kids get whose parents are technically poorer (and are probably assisting with expenses too). The parent is screwing over the kid in this case because the child does in fact NEED government assistance since their parents are not giving them any. I knew a girl in college who was trying to get emancipated from her parents because she had a deadbeat dad with high income that kept her from getting any reasonable loans.

[P]

Sorry Anitra but I disagree with your husband. I think he is selling his siblings short if he intentionally pushes them into community college just to save money. I see this in other cases too and can't believe that anyone would potentially limit their future options just to save a few bucks in the short term. Sure it is a risk that it won't pay off, but not at least taking a shot seems too risk adverse for me.

Like Sarah said, I don't think many people appreciate just how important a good degree from a good school are to future, long-term success is nowadays. While it shouldn't necessarily be what dictates your ability to get into graduate schools or a good job, it does.

[aaktx]

My parents paid for my education( 4years of undergraduate school and 4 years of medical school) and could afford to do this because I had lots of supplemental academic scholarships. I appreciated their efforts to pay for this when I was an undergrad and as a medical student. I have two kids and am saving a boatload in 529's. If you have the means to educate your children, you should do it. Educational debt is crippling(specially to those who majored in basket-weaving) and will get worse. There is no benefit to struggling in life and, trust me, most people do when they are done with school.

[Jim]

Masterpo, I'm sure there are various scholarships or forms of need for various people. They may be based on charitable organizations, the schools endowment or other things. I don't believe the government has any kind of general 'free college for any foreigner' programs however.

P, "the government gains much more from encouraging college education than they do by providing welfare assistance"
How so? What exactly is the cost to government if an upper middle class kid doesn't get subsidized federally guaranteed student loans and has to get a higher APR % private loan instead??

Subsidized loans are a government subsidy. It costs the government money to subsidize those loans. Its not a straight cash handout but it does cost taxpayers and it is government aid.

"The parent is screwing over the kid in this case because the child does in fact NEED government assistance since their parents are not giving them any."

I do generally that those kids are getting screwed over but I don't agree they "need" government assistance to go to college. Hopefully such parents at least made their plan clear to the kid well in advance to give their children time to prepare for their own college costs.

Jim

[P]

Jim, I don't disagree that subsidized loans cost the government money. I just think it is money better spent than welfare assistance. The government will likely reap higher tax revenue from a better educated populace, people are likely to require less in other forms of government assistance down the road, etc. The confusion about how the government benefits may be because we are talking about two issues here, kids of rich parents getting loans and tone towards different government entitlements. Sure the government might not get much back from giving a loan to a kid with rich parents, but I was talking about government loans for education in general. I don't see how government subsidies for education can be considered a bad thing because in the end it encourages a behavior that we should all be in favor of, getting an education.

[Jim]

P, I was agreeing with Bens comment on how the attitude towards government aid in general here usually is very negative. Its not uncommon to see people rail against any government social spending as categorically bad or wasteful. But now that its a middle class person not qualifying for subsidized loans the comments seem to have a very different and sympathetic response.

I certainly think that spending money to help people go to college is a good thing in general. So we aren't disagreeing there.

Jim

[Anitra]

P: When you come out with student loans in excess of three times the entry-level yearly salary in your field, and graduated near the bottom of your class, I'd say that private university wasn't worth it.

No one's saying my in-laws can't transfer into a more prestigious school later if they want to... but four years of private university just doesn't make sense, given the debt load it will create for them - ESPECIALLY since neither one is a star student.

My husband's school debt has seriously limited our options, and will continue to for the foreseeable future. He's said himself that he wouldn't necessarily have chosen a different school, but he would have been a lot wiser with his money and tried harder for scholarships if he had realized how much debt he was taking on.

[slinky]

I agree that paying your own way through college helps a kid to grow up and learn to manage their own money. However, there's absolutely nothing wrong with the parents kicking in the EFC (expected family contribution).

[SP]

As of today, everyone, regardless of income, is eligible for unsubsidized stafford loans. Many scholarships are not need based. (BTW, these are still gov't backed. The student just has to pay interest).

A little student loan debt won't finanically kill a new grad. A lot of student loan debt might. Working a little during college won't kill a student. Working full time might.

" don't think many people appreciate just how important a good degree from a good school are to future, long-term success is nowadays. While it shouldn't necessarily be what dictates your ability to get into graduate schools or a good job, it does."
Not true at all. Well, more true for graduate schools I suppose. If you can't get a job at one of the top companies in your field, get a job at a lesser one, do well, then come back with a real resume, not just a degree.

Every student doesn't need to go to the most expensive school they get into. You should go somewhere where your student loans will not be a giant burden when you graduate. The "brand" means less and less as you get older. It is great to go to a brand school, just don't go into huge amounts of debt to do it.

If you can pay for your kid's college, great. However, parents and students need to be realistic and figure out a way for the student to succeed with whatever it is the parents can (or are willing) to provide.

[Bill]

Where do I begin?

First: everyone keeps arguing between parents paying and student paid loans later in life, but the key is that the money must be paid. I doubt anyone believes that parents should hand their kids $200k with no strings attached. Paying for your child's school enriches them at the parents expense. If the child does not have the funds it is hardly the parents responsibility to blindly pay for college. If a child wants to go to college badly enough and is willing to work for grades then it is probably worth the parents money to help with college, however, good students will do well regardless of parental assisstance.

Second: The choice between private and public colleges is all perception (marketing). I have attended both public and private colleges and what I learned is a function of my effort not how much I paid. The biggest differences I could see is that the private schools have really nice campuses, sports stadiums, cafeterias, pools and dorms, while most public schools are more mediocre. If you think that paying $50k/year is a better education than $15k a year then all I can say is Caveat Emptor. Studies that show a link between income and type of school are very misleading because they merely show the bias of "better" schools to pick more motivated and smarter students.

Third: The best thing I ever did was go through college at 25. I was paying the tab and I made sure that I got my moneys worth. Since I was an adult (no longer using my parents income status), I got aid in line with what I could afford. I did get some help and I had some loans, but the overall message is that I could have (and would have) done it without help. I could see the differences in the kids who were paying for themselves because they would be the ones: taking transfer credits at state schools to graduate faster, overload courses to cut a semester of school, Go to summer school to eliminate a full tuition semester later, transfer from a local college after 2 years to save $$$, commute instead of rent, get reduced meal plans and chow down once a day instead of 3 times, skip the semester at sea programs, do a 3/2 program to get a masters, CO-OP programs, internships in their field, focusing on their field and skipping the "group humming for world peace" classes, working over spring and winter break, work study jobs that are basically forced study times (hall monitor, security, gym equipment sign out etc.).

Finally, Even if I had $200k in loans I'm still way better off than I was before I had my degree. Paying $1000/month may stink, but if you start a job for $24k more than your buddies who didn't go to college, wasn't it worth it. Experienced nurses, engineers, bankers, professional sales people and even many teachers earn $75 - $150+k/year...it seems to me that $100k in debt trumps the $50k average American Income.

[escapee]

wow- this debate really took off overnight!

I don't agree with the statement at all: "don't think many people appreciate just how important a good degree from a good school are to future, long-term success is nowadays. While it shouldn't necessarily be what dictates your ability to get into graduate schools or a good job, it does."

I went to a small state college of 7,000 people (cheap!) for undergraduate then took the GRE. My GRE scores along with my interview and portfolio is what got me into graduate school (in a program that only accepted 7 students per year) not where I went for undergrad, I assure you. When I was hired for my current job, they could have cared less where I got my master's degree, only that I had it.

[MasterPo]

Jim - I wasn't necessarily refering to a free government college education for her. I don't know what program or grant plan etc. paid for her schooling. Could be some grant or scholarship program specific to the schools she attended.

But I do know that it is openly and factly known in our family (she says it herself!) that she didn't pay 1 dime for her college or law school all because she could prove she was born outside the U.S.

Sarah - Completely agree with your 9/10 post!

[Nancy]

My second husband and I keep all our finances separate. We share household expenses but, other than that, we have nothing to do with each others money. He has three daughters and I have one son. Yet when one of his daughters was applying for college aid (grants, school loans, etc.) not only was my husband and his exwife's income information required but also my and the ex'x second husband's income. I felt this was unfair to her because my income in no way supports her. She was denied aid of any kind because of the total income reported.

[Andie]

From fairly early on, my parents let us know that they had saved to help us go to college and could help us with any in-state college. If we wanted to go out of state or private we would have to find that money ourselves.

I thought my parents were really fair about this. Saving for in-state was relatively predictable and offered us a lot of good choices. If we wanted more, we were responsible for the additional costs and would have to consider whether it was worth it. I think this approach made helping with education and saving for retirement doable in my parents' eyes and also communicated to us that while we were cared for, we weren't going to be given the moon.

Family friends with pretty similar incomes sent all 3 of their kids to Ivy's. Their kids have loans to payback, they have loans to pay back, and they are still working while my parents "retired" 2 years ago. (In his retirement, my dad got a new job)

[Mark]

My grandparents set up a fund for my college when i was 5, and my parents contributed to it throughout the years, so my college was paid for. My parents never had to worry about me slacking off. But a friend of mine from a wealthy family, who had a history of changing majors, failing grades, etc. was a different story. His father was paying for his college as well, but finally had enough of the wasted money and hours. He sat my friend down and said "From now on, you will pay for everything on your own - obviously that means loans - if you don't finish college, you'll be stuck paying for it. If you DO graduate within the next ___ years, once you get a job, I will pay off the loans for you. It definitely straightened him out to realize that to stay in college, he would be assuming some risk...but it was also a great motivator.

[fathersez]

We paid in full for the 1st 2 kids. (and it hurt, still does). The younger three are still some years away and my wife and I are slowly driving into their heads that they'll have to pay their way.

We are saving some money, and if push comes to shove, we should be able to pay at least substantially. Still the idea of them doing well enough for scholarships and earning their way is more attractive then them spending their time on extracurricular activities.