The Price of Faith, Being Christian

For those of you new to Free Money Finance, I post on The Bible and Money every Sunday. Here's why.

Here's a piece from CNN Money that discusses the price of faith, what Jews, Muslims, and Christians have to pay/spend related to their faiths. Here's how CNN Money describes the series:

To explore how religion affects the way people manage their money, we visited with three families of different faiths who are struggling to reconcile their spiritual beliefs with their wallets. Their stories, and our advice to them, follow. What all three households have in common: the desire to let faith guide their economic prospects, without undermining their family's security or long-term goals. As you'll see, that isn't always an easy task.

I'm highlighting this piece in three different posts and giving my comments along the way. Today we'll cover the costs associated with being Christian. Here's a summary of what this family spends as a result of their faith:

• $7,600 tithing, other donations

A few other highlights:

• Husband and wife are 41 and 40 years old.
• They make $117,000 a year.
• Their net worth is $108,000.

My take/comments:

1. This couple had an incorrect "Christians need to be poor" point-of-view that impacted their finances in a big way (negatively) for much of their lives.

2. Like the other couples in this piece, they don't tithe (give 10% of their income.) Couldn't CNN Money find someone that gave at least 1/10th of their income? Seems like it would be so easy to find someone that did.

3. They're "kinda" on track with their finances now. They're savings $8,000 a year in a retirement account, which is good, but they still don't have all their bad habits under control (they just bought a home for $320k that an advisor said shouldn't cost more than $285k. Ouch!)

4. I'm guessing their net worth is average for a couple their ages.

It's been interesting to see these three couples of faith over the past few weeks. My biggest surprise is that other than a few added expenses, these people's finances aren't really that influenced by their faiths. They have the same problems (like controlling spending) that everyone else has. I would have expected better performance from people of faith since I know (for Christians and Jews) and guess (for Muslims) that their holy books/teachings lead them to be better money managers (for a more detailed perspective on this, see The Bible Will Make You Rich.)

Comments

[David]

There is nothing in the Bible that requires Christians to give 10% of their income. Please stop propagating this myth.

[Edmund]

So a religious person "should" be better with money than an atheist?

[Anonymous]

I agree - there is nothing in the bible that requires lemming Christians to "tithe".

If you believe that religion should be part of your expenses or that the church needs or deserves even one cent of your income, then I truly feel sorry that you fell for their shallow, misguided beliefs. Live your own life, don't let anyone or anything tell you what is right or wrong in life.

With 3000+ different religions in the world and religion being the primary source of all of the world's wars and terrorism (remember 9/11 anyone?) how can anyone believe that their religion is anything greater than a cult of brainwashed people, simply following the herd? I feel so sorry for you.

[Sam]

Personally, I subscribe to no religion, and find it offensive that you would expect lower performance from people like me. I have started my own business, my retirement is paid for several times over, and I regularly give have my entire annual income to charity since I find it offensive that so called 'people of faith' refuse to do more to help the starving, the sick and those less fortunate than the rest of us.

Now, let us return to our regularly scheduled programming of self-congratulatory blah blah.

[J. Money]

I LOVED that article - read it in Money Magazine a few weeks back and posted my thoughts as well. While I'm Christian myself, I was more drawn to the Jewish & Muslim portion of the article - incredible how much more finances come into play for them here in the U.S.!

[Todd]

I enjoy reading about a spiritual aspect to money each Sunday on FMF. I would strongly disagree with David on scripture requiring a tithe or 10%. This commandment is still in affect today, and was not part of law of Moses that was fulfilled. The gospel is not ala arte and last I heard you don't get to pick and choose which commandments you want to follow. As for Anonymous comments on lemming Christians - that is an unfair and ignorant comment. I don’t follow the Muslim or Jewish tenants on money that were described over the last several weeks, but I would not fault them for following the things that believe to be right and would not consider them to be lemmings. This is a matter of following the principle of obedience, not blindly following others. "If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:31–32). God gives commandments for our benefit. They are instructions for our happiness and for our physical and spiritual well-being.

[Jeff M]

@Anonymous

Yes, you are correct that it was the religious who started all of the worlds wars. World War 2 was started by Buddhists. World War 1 was started by Hindus. Korea was started by Zoroastrians. Vietnam was started by Christians. The Spanish American War was started by Muslims.

The myth that religion is the primary source of wars has been propagated by those who hate religion. In the last century, it was the atheistic Communists who killed 100 million people. Where is the blood on the hands of the religious?

[David]

So Todd, do you still offer burnt offerings? Why not?

Please show me in the NT where it mentions tithing at all. All the commandments the we as Christians were supposed to maintain we reaffirmed by Christ or the apostles. Tithing is NOT one of them. GIVING certainly is affirmed, but it is a matter of grace not of law. See 1 Cor. 16:2.

If you insist on keeping the law, you must keep the whole law.

[FMF]

http://www.freemoneyfinance.com/2008/02/ha-this-explain.html

[FMF]

David --

Luke 11:42

[David]

FMF, do you take that single verse as an instruction for Christians to tithe?

Again, why do Christians not offer burnt offerings (among other things), as required by the OT law?

[FMF]

David --

1. You asked where "in the NT where it mentions tithing at all". I provided the answer.

2. If you want to debate tithing versus generous giving versus not giving at all, you're way late to the party. Read all I've written on the subject (many posts in my The Bible and Money category here: http://www.freemoneyfinance.com/the_bible_and_money/), then we won't have to cover ground that's already been covered here.

[JimL]

To Edmund, anonymous, etc:

Please understand the background on this subject. The bible says more about money than any other subject in the New Testament. It speaks about avoiding debt and storing up in good times to offset for the hard times. As such, there is some expectation amongst fellow Christians that we should be managing our money better than average if we are really following the teachings given to us.

Secondly, most regular readers of this site know that FMF is a Christian (like many others of us) and topics for Sunday are typically of a Christian nature for self relection. I am continually amazed at people who come on here with the simple motivation to just bash Christians. You have every right to hold your own beliefs (or lack thereof), but please respect the right of others to have their beliefs as well.

[MrAtoZ]

You could easily interpret Luke 11:42 to mean that you should give 1/10th of your garden herbs and mints, which is what the Pharisees were doing. That's a different type of green than what modern interpretation of Luke is producing in this discussion. And by my reading, it wasn't that JC was bringing up the necessity of tithing herbs per se; he was just saying that the Pharisees were giving plants instead of real love and devotion.
I think the most appropriate Biblical reference to helping others is the general rule that Christ hhad to love one another. The accounting, then, is just details. But clearly 10% is arbitary.

[MC]

This is really sad. They're blaming their lousy financial situation on their religion? Really?

God gave us brains---so we could use them. These people remind me of my brother who "prays on it" when he has to make a decision, instead of doing some actual research on the pro's and con's.

[Chris Leow]

We in Malaysia are enjoying high growth and high inflation, I do not understand all this complaining. We have to thank China for our strong growth as our economy was going down until March 2009 and China rescued us by buying our commodities. Currently there is strong job market, 2 jobs for every worker, we have to import in foreign labour to do jobs that locals do not want to do ! We have high inflation, an example is a local dessert called "cendol" selling for $1.20 in local currency a month ago, is now selling for $ 1.80 in local currency. Thats a hefty increase, so don't complain, enjoy the boom ! Donating is a good thing in this booming economy, if you need more money just job hop to a higher salary like what we do in Malaysia !

[Travis W.]

While I don't want to start a religious/philosophical discussion here I think it is relevant to comment on this post:

"If you believe that religion should be part of your expenses or that the church needs or deserves even one cent of your income, then I truly feel sorry that you fell for their shallow, misguided beliefs. Live your own life, don't let anyone or anything tell you what is right or wrong in life."

The last part of this is what is called moral relativism which means that there is no absolute right/wrong which is a very dangerous way of thinking. This essentially means that what I think is right may be different from you think is right and that we are both correct. From a money perspective this means that people like Bernie Madoff have done nothing wrong because he thought what he was doing was ok.

[Trent D.]

The bile that flows from the keyboards of many atheists on posts like this reveals the hatred in their hearts. For people that pretend to propagate such a "live and let live" attitude, many of you sure are closed minded and unwilling to accept the choices of others.

Now, about the post:

FMF, I find it highly likely that they're tithing on their net income, not on their gross. That's probably a good topic for a future post - net or gross tithing?!

It seems to me that many of the Christians that attack the 10% tithe are less concerned about what the Bible says, and more concerned about avoiding giving to the church. I personally believe that we are instructed to give as God leads us to give, but that 10% should be a baseline for Christians. Honestly people, can you not do that little bit for your Lord and Savior?

[David]

Trent D,

You have no idea how much I give, yet you assume, for the sake of your superstitions, that those who oppose the 10% myth do so out of stinginess. The issue here is LAW vs GRACE, a concept that many Christians do not understand. They would rather live with a yardstick of how "righteous" they are in comparison with other people -- just like the Pharisees.

It is precisely the fact the I care what the Bible says that I challenge positions like yours. Of those that have posted comments on this article, I am the only one to offer a biblical justification for my position. You just say "I believe the Bible says such-and-such", but do not provide any evidence to support it.

[David]

BTW: I am not saying that Christians *shoudn't* give 10% if they so desire, just that it is not required under the New Covenant. No Christian should tell another: "you must give this much".

[FekketCantenel]

I'll second the request for an article on net or gross tithing.

As for the rest, Jim said it better than I can: "... topics for Sunday are typically of a Christian nature for self relection. I am continually amazed at people who come on here with the simple motivation to just bash Christians."

[FMF]

Gross versus net tithing -- see question #2 here:

http://www.freemoneyfinance.com/2006/01/questions_about.html

[Abigail]

Wow, some angry folks here. While certainly the agnostics/atheists (I'm the former) don't come out in the best light, I think a few of the responses were pretty vitriolic too.

I think everyone's too defensive about religion (or lack thereof). Frankly, I think that if you can afford to give 10% then that is wonderful and I would hope that some of it goes to good works beyond the church.

That said, there are plenty of people out there who cannot find the 10% -- net or gross. I can't imagine anyone telling a family who's barely (if at all) making ends meet that they are bad Christians for not tithing. And I think it is the idea that 10% is mandatory for any kind of passing grade as a Christian that some of the non-religious folks object to.

While I didn't grow up with any religion in the household, I was raised with a firm belief that, when you are able to, you help others. And sometimes that's in smaller ways. Sometimes that's not possible. But when you have enough to give, you should give it willingly. Where you give is, of course, up to you.

But getting back to the article at hand...

I actually found this to be a very confusing post (not because of writing, FMF!) because I have read Weber's The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism. Of course, there are plenty of non-Protestant Christians. But I have to agree with Weber, who was a sociologist by trade, that this country was founded by Protestants. Which means many of their beliefs had some lasting impressions.

Basically, for those who aren't familiar with Weber's work, capitalism was popular in America because of Protestantism.

1. All is pre-determined.
2. So whether you get into heaven is, too.
3. Given that they couldn't affect their fate, people were anxious for some sign that they weren't going to be damned for eternity.
4. Clearly, someone favored by God (and therefore getting into heaven) would have success in his endeavors.
5. So if you made money, you must be favored by God, which means you're getting into heaven, which also means you're a good person who should be treated accordingly.

While plenty of Christians don't believe in predestination, I think some of that basic Protestantism did stick in this country. People who did well were envied and set up as paragons; people who did not were usually looked on with pity sometimes, but more often disgust. It is assumed that if your business failed, it was due to some personal failing of your own.

Of course, now that the divide between rich and poor is becoming so wide, I think some of these values are changing. But this country does emanate a belief that success has to be tangible. (Which may be where the misguided notion comes from that, to be a good Christian, you must stay poor. Otherwise, you're guilty of hubris and not being Christ-like.)

Frankly, I've always found the whole "success = God's favor" thing to be strange, given how many Old Testament guys suffered because they were favored/chosen by God. (Moses and Job are the most obvious two. But I'm betting Noah didn't have the best time trying to explain why he was building a huge boat to his skeptical neighbors.)

I suppose I'm rambling a bit, but I guess my point is this:

I think one's PF ability does not come from religion.So I don't think it makes anyone better or worse. I think that plenty of people who are religious are also successful at personal finance. But then I bet a lot of kids who score well on math tests also like gum. Not necessarily a causal effect. Sometimes it's just correlative.

I think, more likely, people who already had a good aptitude for PF, noticed certain quotes in their religious readings and, because PF was important to them, they noted its importance. Others who were less concerned with money probably wouldn't take much notice.

The one way in which I think religion can affect PF is simply that people who are religious -- truly religious, not just using a system of beliefs to spew hate -- are able to see the joy in just about every aspect of life. This has a few consequences:

1. Religious people will be more appreciative of natural wonders and taking in all of God's creation. (Sorry, I know it's a broad stereotype, but I'm theorizing here.) This is a lot cheaper than buying up every little piece of new technology. There is definitely something to be said for finding wonder in the every day -- both in and outside of the house. I think religious people are more likely to do just that.

2. Religious people are more accepting of the ups and downs of life. When times are tough, believers know that God sees fit to let them have some hard times. On the same note, they also believe He will keep them safe in the long run and provide for them all that they actually need. I think this kind of attitude helps them to tighten their belts as needed, rather than living above their means, even in lean times.

3. Religious people are happy. I mean, not every second of the day. But I've often felt some envy at just how reassuring it must be to know that there is a deity up there, watching out for you, listening to your prayers, etc. That lends itself to a kind of serenity that can elude folks living a more secular life. (Notice, I say "can.") At any rate, not to be cheesy and cliche (though why stop now?) I do think that religious people are more likely to find happiness inside. More secular people may, instead, look for peace and happiness in things, which is an expensive and fruitless search.

Obviously, not everyone fits this profile. And I know plenty of secular folks who are very happy, content and fulfilled. And good at personal finance. But, again, the trend is that they find happiness in their existence, in their families and try to make a good life and live as good people.

Hope that ridiculously long ramble answers the question initially put out there.