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Excellent post. Whats the saying, "Time heals all wounds." I think thats how we have to look at the current financial situation.

Something that should be impressed on novices about these calculations: 4% (max recommended drawdown) of $566K is only about $23K (before taxes, if money is in a 401(k), obviously not an issue if it's a Roth). If no Social Security in retirement (all too likely), that's a 50% reduction in income from original salary. Ouch! Even on the 35-year plan, you're still only getting $33K a year. And we haven't even considered inflation.

Conclusion: everybody needs to save more!

What are some less risky investment ideas to earn 7, 8 or 9% rate of returns?

Don't forget about using inflation to your advantage.

A $1000 saved ten years ago was worth more then than it is today. If you save a set amount every year from now on instead of a percentage of your gross salary, your real rate of return is higher because it's less a percentage of your income. Although the value of a dollar is decreased due to inflation, the earlier the compounding starts on older dollars, the better.

Of course, it's still better to raise your contributions as a percent of your gross, BUT, like paying a fixed mortgage payment, over time it's less of a burden if you want the spend the difference on other things. Thanks to my fixed mortgage I took out fifteen years ago, I have more left over to invest.

I often see other on this board brag about their investment returns, like getting 10-20% year after year, which I fail to believe anyway. You're far better off sacrificing as much as you can early on in life to invest long-term (like index funds or some other safer investment) than trying to trade stocks or commodities. Any good financial calculator will prove that the biggest influence is how much you save and how early you start saving, not whether you get 6% or 16% return. Furthermore, what is the value of your time and health spent chasing returns? If you don't value having too many things, you won't miss not having them, which in turn makes saving a significant portion of your earnings no burden at all.

What I learned is you can't take returns for granted. When you get them be grateful for what you've received. Money doesn't just multiply like rabbits, it takes some careful decision making, planning and luck.

Since I started my career in the mid to late 90's my average returns have been less than 0%. I still managed to build a high net worth though by saving.

-Mike.

You indeed do need luck with the stock market. There are these 10- or 20-year-long waves in P/E ratios. In the period 1980-2000 we had rising P/E ratios, so even your grandmother would have made a profit in the market (and thought she's a pro at investing!). The last decade has been different - could be the beginning of a wave down. In such a period it's difficult to make a profit in the short term (10-20 years), which might be what Mike has experienced.

F,

Good comment. Indeed this has been a lost decade. I'm convinced that the demographics in the US (baby boomer retiring and pulling their money out of the stock market) coupled with our country's high debt / low interest rate policy will depress stock P/E's for another decade or two. I think there are still trading opportunities to jump in and out of the market but I think buy and hold is a terrible strategy for the next 10 years.

-Mike

Mike,

I agree with you on Western markets in general, but on the other hand the market has already fallen back a lot so it's worthwhile to check for individual stocks whether they aren't worth buying, based on 'normal' but conservative earnings and a low P/E. I think the earnings of commodity stocks are a lot more likely to recover than those of the S&P 500. This upside potential can make up for P/E damage. Anyway, you've got to run the numbers. A very conservative estimate for e.g. BHP Billiton (ADR) would be $30, based on E/P=7, 12bn profit (2006 level + synergies from their latest deal). With either E/P=10 or the 2008 profit levels (why not - tight supply should sustain high commodity prices), I arrive at $42. We're higher now but we've been there (below $30). Add to that nice growth prospects (emerging markets) and you see why I would buy a stock like this provided their price drops again to the above levels.

The S&P 500 turns out less attractive (roughly $400) because here I took 2004 earnings (what came after that might have been a credit-driven earnings bubble). I don't see us test $400 any time soon, plus no emerging-market growth prospects.

I haven't done the exercise for emerging markets yet, but it's definitely worth it. If anyone has, feel free to post.

Typo: P/E, not E/P

less risky ways to earn 7-9%on your money

Master Limited Partnetships (MLP'S) These are pipeline companies traded on the ny stock exchange. they get paid based on the amount of oil/gas moving thru the pipe not the cost of the oil so their profits are fairly steady. The pay dividends of 7-10% that tend to grow over time.
The MLP's also have the dvanrage that most of their dividend is tax defered do to a quirk in the tax laws for oil/gas pipeline companies. Because of this quirk they are really not suilable for retirement accounts and they tend to make tax return time a little more complicated since you get a k-1 instead of a 1099. Some of the big pipelines are PAA,OKS,KMR,TPP,ETP,EPD.

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