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I am sorry that this is going to be so brutal but I can't really soften this much. This is some of the worst advice I have ever seen here. Perhaps it should not be surprising given that a 6 month out of college early 20 something with no experience is telling us how the corporate world really works. Generally I prefer to get my advice from people with experience. He doesn't have enough experience to offer this kind of advice and almost everything he says is wrong.

A B average is fine? Maybe in sales, not in engineering. If you have a B average in a discipline based field (rather than a personality or relationship based field like sales) then you are at the short end of applicants. The company I work for won't even consider looking at you with a B average, your resume would be rejected without ever making it past HR so now one will ever see all your other cool stuff.

And then we move on to promote "purple cow" marketing hype. This is more fad following non-sense. See here is the thing about purple cows, there aren't any. The idea of encouraging everyone to be extraordinary is self defeating. 90% of people have a job and in a decent economy 95% of people have a job. Were they all purple cows to get that job? No. Almost none of them were. You know what they were. Good. Good at their job, good at selling them selves, good at their education, good at making networking connections, good at something. They were good. If you want to succeed be good, damn good, at what you do and make some good connections.

Then the suggestions:

1. Start a side business. Are you kidding me? Most of these are adventures in wasting time. College students starting side businesses either go on to do their own thing (some very well, some very poorly) or they are just fooling around and kidding themselves that they really have a business. So as an employer I don't want someone who was starting side businesses and promoting that on his resume to me. That tells me he either has a problem focusing his efforts on doing what he is doing (college) really well or he really doesn't want to work for my company he wants to do his own thing and will be constantly splitting his energies between my company and trying to get his own thing going on the side until he believes he can leave for good.

2. Intern everywhere and anywhere that interests you. What? If you can get no intern related to what you are studying and the field you hope to work in then sure, something is better than nothing but if you are going to school for business why are you interning in a biology lab? Again it either shows a lack of ability to focus or an inability to land the positions in the same field you are now asking me as an employer to give you a job in.

3. School Club - sure thats fine, I got no problems with that. It doesn't hurt and if its related to your field of study then it is beneficial but it won't carry the weight of an excellent academic record and relevant related experience.


I really cannot overstate how bad this post is. The advice given here is a simply horrible.

I agree with Apex. Get the best grades you can in college. Get a job in your field if you can. These are the things that demonstrate you are a committed, responsible individual. That is the kind of person I would choose to hire!

I'm going to have to defend Austin here. I'm actually pretty surprised at how negative the first two commenters were. Of COURSE you should get the best grades you can get. It matters more in some fields than in others.

But frankly, the attitude of "work hard, get good grades, forget the other stuff" is really stale. When there are thousands of applicants for each job opening, it's going to be the applicants with unique skill sets that get a call back. It's like getting into college--having a 1500+ on your SATs (or whatever the equivalent is nowadays) and a 4.0 is NOT enough to get into an Ivy League school. It's the interesting story or skill or accomplishment that gets you there.

What's worse, most HR departments can't even look into a measurable test like the SAT to judge an applicant! If you don't have a unique experience to show them, all they have to look to is a GPA. And you're pretty naive if you think the 3.6 who started his own business and edited the school newspaper is going to lose out to the 3.8 who didn't do anything to stand out. As far as internships go, it's the skill-set you're developing. So guess what, when a spot opens up at Gilead Sciences, the business management major who interned in a science lab is going to have a leg up. And the very fact that he interned in a science lab shows that that's where his interests intersect.

Honestly, I don't think Austin was even trying to write to the career computer engineer, who plans to work 9-to-5 at the same company for 40 years. He was writing to the passionate computer engineer, who works 9-to-7 and then comes home and codes his own projects for fun, because he freaking loves what he does. That second guy is the one who's going to get the promotions and start side businesses. And let's face it, that first guy is going to be fired for a cheap, young hire once he gets into his 50s.

Well I see both side. Austin might come off a bit naive but he's just trying to give some new fresh advice. It just requires some tweaking but I wouldn't be completely dismissive.

MasterPo agrees with Apex.

Sorry Apex, but I will have to disagree with some of your points...

just because *you* would not hire a college student who started his own business doesn't mean that there are not many *other* hiring managers/employers that would. Your technical industry is not the only one out there, the only one that counts, and/or the only one that makes the world go around.

There is a place in the "real world" for the 3.4 marketing major who started his own business/college club/whatever, just as there is a place for the 3.9 electrical engineering major who kept his/her head down and drove hard for 4 years with no extracurriculars to show for.

An applicant that started his own business comes off to you as a person who has trouble focusing his/her energies, but it may mean something totally different (in a good way!) to another employer in another industry.

I think the problem with the advice given in this post is that it's not broad enough. Just as I think the problem with your comment, Apex, is that it's not broad enough. And you know what, don't worry about it... let's just say that the post was not directed at those in a technical field such as yourself. Just as your comment is more directed at what will/won't work in the field of engineering.

@J,

I caveated my comment concerning discipline based fields versus personality or relationship fields.

A 3.4 is not a B average either, I never said you needed a 3.9. But a 3.0 is a B average and that doesn't cut it in most discipline based fields.

Apex ...
-I think you miss the point ...
-It is all about the interview ... every job that I have had (Currently I'm an Oracle DBA, but I have worked as Microbiologist, Research Scientist and Operation Manager), it all came down to personality and interview skills
-The resume + cover letter gets you the interview ... HR reviews it to opt you out ... I have never seen a job req that states a certain GPA (I have a 4.0 all the way through (BS Physics, BS Microbiology, MS Computer Science) and I'm currently working on my Ph.D in computer Science ... so I wish it did matter)
-The interview is mostly about whether the team likes and wants to work with you ... whether you fit in, so some good stories can help & Austin's ideas might do the trick

Apex,
Mostly I agree with you--including your opening statement. While joining clubs and doing some of the other things will help round you out personal wise, thus contributing to your ability to interview well and improving the odds getting the job, your grades are the single biggest factor, bar none.

Interviewing skills are number two in my view, so mashford you are right about that.

Frankly that is true for the first job only, okay there are exceptions I suppose. After your first real job, any new company cares more about what you did in your current/former job.

If you are going to be an engineer then Apex is correct. Most people dont graduate with a professional degree, and these are the people who need the above advice. I hire engineers/PhD's/programmers and I only really care about their raw skills- gpa is one way to measure this. As a group, they are also paid a lot less than people hired for other jobs.

For non professional degrees, grades only matter for the first job- if at all. School work is 10% of the college education. At best, grades are a hurdle and nothing more. I've never asked for someone's gpa.

Internships are the single most important factor in getting a job. With a C- gpa and an internship from Goldman Sachs I can get a job in finance. I only received offers from firms/fed govt where I had a relationships prior to beginning my job search. Those who blew off internships were a major step behind and they are yet to catch up. I cant stress it enough, internships are the most important factor in getting a first job.

A side business is awesome. I dont hire drones. I want people that are hungry, leaders and driven (well expect for the engineers that are hired). Starting a side business shows these traits and I am willing to bet provided a valuable learning experience. It does set one apart from the pack.

When I was in college I ran a company, interned for a Cabinet level Secretary, and an I bank. These experiences built a very strong foundation for my future career. My gpa was nothing special. I was an active student leader. Everything in the original post, has made a major difference in the success of my career.


How the world really works vs. how an engineer thinks the world should work.

Hey, this is Austin (the author of this guest post) -

I'm glad this post has created an interesting dialog so far. I'm not going to defend everything I wrote because I believe in my topic and I believe in today's world where no one works the same job for 40 years, that limiting yourself to one track in college is risky. Colleges provide a lot of opportunities for students, and if you can build on those opportunities with your own creations you'll be much better off when you leave school.

There's nothing wrong with exploring alternatives and finding out what truly interests you in college. For every 18 year old who stays in the same major for all 4 years, there's 10 students who switch majors 2,3, and sometimes 4 times. Instead of staying in their dorm rooms hoping for a sign, I believe they should be out and about campus, making connections, and creating things on their own.

@Apex

I found some of your ideas to be very sad. Your belief that there aren't any purple cows is depressing. I'm sorry you think that way and that you live in such a down-to-earth state that the idea of innovation and creativity is void from your life. I think workers at Apple, Charity Water, Threadless, Google, and thousands of other start-ups would disagree with your views.

No, a student who wants to be an engineer or a college professor probably shouldn't shoot for a B average, but I'm not talking to the students who have a defined career path in their heads. I'm talking to the 4 million other students who at one time or another feel a little lost, confused, and directionless in college.

I appreciate you speaking up about your hatred for my topic, but I feel bad if you are promoting your morals to your kids - if you have any. The idea of just hitting the books hard in college and getting a 4.0 to get a job is not around any more. You need to stick out and if you honestly believe that starting a side business in college "are adventures in wasting time" than I'm done wasting words on you.

Thanks everyone for the comments.

I speak from experience having landed a good job with good grades, internships directly related to my field and multiple interviews where all that mattered was my experience and skills in what they were hiring for as well as my ability to communicate those skills. As I explained multiple times I understand that some areas of study are a little less rigid than that but even in something like sales, having spent a summer selling encylopedias door to door is more valuable than having interned in a science lab.

I will point out that your argument in your article was not about trying to figure out what you want to do, it was about how to get a job and those are two entirely different things. While trying all kinds of new things may be valuable to determine what you want to do, it doesn't make you more marketable unless you happen to be interviewing for a job that is a very broad multi-facetted type job. Most jobs are looking for you to do something a little more targeted. You may switch jobs to something unrelated later where some of that diversity of experience may server you well, but having unrelated experience isn't very high on the list of things employers are looking for in any particular job.

I also speak from experience having started a business, sold it, and starting another one currently. So believe me when I tell you I don't discount the value of experience starting a business if its a real one. But I have also never seen it provide value in the workplace unless you were interviewing for a business development or business leadership type of position.

Regarding my purple cow comment my point may not have been clear. The author of the purple cow uses purple cows because there are none. The reason people look at a purple cow is because they have never seen one. My point was not that there aren't extraordinary people, there are. And there are ordinary people who do extraordinary things. But I have seen many young people with their expectations way too high become jaded and synical as their dreams got crushed by reality. The problem with shooting for purple cows is that they are out of reach for most people. Most people have to be average, thats how averages work. If everyone was extraordinary, then they would all be extraordinarily average. But average people can still apply themselves and do great at what they do and provide great value to their employers.

And while I never suggested you need a 4.0, your claim that the idea of hitting the books hard in college to get a job is just not around anymore is a bit bold. I am not sure what you base that on.

Right now the economy is tough and inexperience has a tough time competing with experience. And in that sense perhaps you are seeing a need to stand out some how from all the other inexperienced people looking for a job. In the long run, well prepared competence gets the job. My company currently has a hiring freeze on (Fortune 100 company), but we make one and only one exception. New college grads with exceptional grades, not for purple cow experiences.

I am a bit amused that you feel so sad for me and that a young 20 something with no experience raising kids feels bad for my kids and the terrible values they are getting, like work hard, apply yourself, do your best job at what you do.

While I know my comments and experiences do not apply to all situations (which I have stated multiple times), I have enough experience to have seen them apply in many situations and still see them being applied today.

Austin begins by stating that he has pinpointed several mistakes. It's unclear how he came to his epiphany though because he doesn't say how he found this truth which eluded him in college. Are we to presume that 6 months of experience was more valuable than 4 years of college for finding this truth?

Apex

Sorry for the harsh words, but I appreciate your more positive tone in your 2nd comment. I respect your experience as a professional and am sorry we can't see eye to eye on how spreading yourself out in college can positively affect their careers and post-college life.

I still think everyone should shoot to be remarkable. The remarkable people don't slouch and rely on god-given talent. They try hard, learn from their mistakes, and grow every day. You say that not all people can be remarkable, but they can be great. So why not let them be great and why not let them follow their intersts and see what comes out of it.

I only said I felt sad for you because it seemed you were against thinking outside the box as a student, and that you wouldn't be supportive of someone dabbling in a side project or interest if it didn't have 100% relevance to their #1 life goal.

Austin, if what you were really just trying to say all along was that,"...everyone should shoot to be remarkable.", why didn't you just say so?? I'm not trying to start a fight here but you have to admit, the your post didn't come across as saying this. Only after Apex and a number of other people made some points have you started to back-track.

@Schadenfeude

The comment discussion did seem to go that way didn't it? The only reason I started defending "Be Remarkable" was when Apex attacked the idea that college students starting side businesses and trying stuff outside of the norm was a waste of time because no one is special.

I did get off topic in my comment, but I thought it deserved my time because I'll always tell people to try to be remarkable.

I mostly (about 80 percent) paid my way through college with low-wage jobs, and thought I couldn't afford to take an unpaid internship. I paid for that after graduation.

I think that there are lots of good ideas in this post. But if I had read this back in high school, it would have freaked me out. So let me add a few thoughts.

Austin is right that four years is a short time to set yourself up for whatever you want to do after graduating. But it's a long time to be miserable. Back in my college days in the mid-90s, I knew a lot of sleep-deprived, overworked students who were trying to build a resume that ticked all the right boxes. I can only imagine that the situation is worse now. Even if everything a college student does to build their resume is something that he or she is interested in, it can still make him or her miserable if it's just too much. There is limited time, and a person has limited energy.

I thought of my college years as a time when I pressed "pause" to set myself up for my "real life" after graduating. But college is not some sub-optimal state of living. The four years you spend in college go towards your final tally, and college students have no less of a right to be happy than other people. It's OK to not focus on building your resume every hour of every day.

The comments make it clear that there are lots of different hiring philosophies. Some employers are impressed by lots of extracurriculars. Others aren't. All you can do is be yourself, try the things that interest you, and stick with those things that give you the most meaning. Don't spend too much time worrying about your resume. After all, the potential employer who is impressed by a resume with lots of stuff on it might just be looking for someone willing to work 80 hours a week. And if you intend to have other priorities in life besides work, then maybe it's best that your resume go unnoticed by that employer.

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