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While I'm not speaking from experience, I was wondering what you thought about job hopping to get up to an higher level of pay?

Sometimes the dynamics at the place you work at are bad or practically impossible to advance because of one reason or another. So maybe it's better to looks elsewhere for that 8% (or really much higher) raise in pay!

Where I work at, a lot of both lower and upper management left their jobs at one level (let's say 10), and then have become rehired (at my company) at a higher level (14). While this doesn't make sense to me, it has happened a lot where I work at!

Money Reasons --

I think leaving a company for another job that pays more/offers more challenges/etc. is a viable way to grow a career and income.

@Money Reasons - As I sit home for one week in between jobs, I anticipate the nearly 20% raise I'm getting. To answer your question, changing jobs is one of the best ways to get a raise if it is not viable with your existing employer.

BTW, if you are a user of LinkedIn, take a look at various executives or upper mgmt at your business or similiar. You will notice that an overwhelming majority only stay in a job for 2 to 4 years. It's typically not the 25+ year employees getting the higher paying jobs. These are the facts. I don't agree with this tactic as the values I was raised on were to stay loyal to a company for the long haul. However, I've conceded to move on for the money and more importantly the promotional opportunity.

There is something to say for staying in a position a while and becoming an expert on the material and on the organizational culture. This can be a way to advance over time at the same employer. You may lose ground if you jump around to much, especially in a smaller market.

I've only been out of school since 2003, but I have averaged somewhere between 12.22%-21.73% pay increase per year. The reason for the range on percentage is because I'm not sure how to calculate the figure... 12.22% does not take into consideration bonuses which are based on the previous years performance or my initial 'intern' hourly pay while I completed my last semester of my MBA program. The 21.73% does include the large increase in pay to an official position and the bonuses I received.

I have been with the same company the whole time and still feel like there is a big opportunity for growth.

This assumes that you can get your manager to give you a clear set of objectives to exceed. I have consistently run into the issue where I cannot get a firm, clearn set of objectives to exceed from my managers and currently am having the issue where I have contradictory objectives (they want me to literally do two jobs at once). At best, I get a few measurable objectives within a larger set of objectives that I can clearly exceed. Others, I say I exceeded come annual reviews, but am told that I did not exceed them AS MUCH as my peers, or that I cannot expect a top performance rating in my first year in a role. I'd appreciate folks' thoughts on these situations...other than clearly needing to leave my current position and/or company.

Paul --

"other than clearly needing to leave my current position and/or company."

I think you answered your own question...

If someone will not give you something to shoot for, how do you know you're doing what they want or not? If the company/boss is that dysfunctional, I would certainly be looking at opportunities with other firms.

Getting 8% average raises long term may require getting into management.

You don't necessarily have to jump around from job to job. I've averaged 7% annual increases over the past decade all at the same job. And that includes company wide wage freeze last year. For me the key has been getting promotions. Three promotions have gotten me raises of 15-30%. Without the promotions my raises have averaged about 3%. But to keep getting promotions I'm going to have to climb up to the management ranks.

If you only leave when jumping for a promotion or big salary increase that helps.

I started my career as and Engineer I, got promoted to Engineer II.

Left my first company for a Customer Focus Manager position, got promoted to
Senior manager at the company.

Left the second company for a promotion as an Operations Director at a small start up. The company went belly up and I was on the unemployment list.

Turned down several manager level jobs (tough with no income) until I got a Quality & Continuous Improvement Director title- stayed with that company for 4 years in the same title but took on a lot more responsibility - from a single specialist with dotted line reports to managing an organization of 13 direct reports with 90 people total.

Left the fourth job for a position as a Managing Director running a factory with 600 people. After 2 years on an expat contract I was looking for something else.

Job number six is as a CEO of a small company ($50 million USD a year) where I've been working the past two years. Still learning and building up my skills, hopefully the career will continue to grow as I'm 36 at present. Even if things plateau out it would still be ok.

The key is, keep pushing, try your best, and eventually you will get lucky. I realize when I was making my moves the market was better but I did have to deal with the recession of 2001 - 2002 when I was out of a job and the 2nd recession in summer 2008 before I got my current job. If you are hard working and patient enough you will get your lucky break.

-Mike

I can only speak for the field I'm in (Fashion, I'm a Sr Technical Designer; I make clothing fit). I've averaged about an 12% raise each year - BUT to do that, I had to do a lot of tough things:

1) My first three years in fashion, I changed jobs each year. My starting salary was 37k. By job 3, I was making 65k

2) I ALWAYS documented everything I was doing, & always went above & beyond. Which, to be honest, wasn't extremely difficult. I think that a lot of good workers don't realize how much they do that goes "above & beyond" & document it properly.

3) After job 3 gave me a few crappy raises (I stayed there for 3 years), I went out & interviewed around & found another company that wanted to hire me to do the same job for 10k more. I took that offer back to the company that I was working for & they matched it. This is a very important point - IF you are a good worker, you should know that most large companies keep a fund of money to "retain talent". So if you find a new job & go back to your company & ask them to make a counter-offer (& IF you're a great employee), they often will. I find that to be HUGELY underutilized by good workers.

4) My current job gives a graduated bonus, based on how well we do. My first few years there, we got huge bonuses, because they'd under-evaluated how well we'd do. Now that they're catching up, I'll change jobs soon. This job change will be the first time I look for a job that's six figures (before bonus).

If you're willing to be uncomfortable & push yourself, the gains can be amazing. But it's HARD. Everytime I've interviewed for a new job, it's exhuasting - researching the company, tweaking my resume & portfolio to highlight the things that are aligned with that company, selling myself through multiple interviews, that's all hard, exhausting work. Going back to Job 3 & telling them they need to raise my salary 10k or I walk was also nerve-wracking; I barely slept that week, while they were "thinking".

But in the end, it was well-worth it. I make about 30% more, base salary, than most of the people that I started out with. AND, over the years, I've pushed for signing bonses with companies - I have an extra 10k (pre-tax, final amount was less) socked away & invested, due to those signing bonuses.

Because I live well below my means, I've got two choices right now: I could have enough money to retire in about 10 years, if I keep pushing the way I've been pushing (I'm 30). OR, I can start taking a year or two off, as I feel like it, & still have the money to have a compfortable retirement in about 15 years. Those are great choices to have, and well worth all the pushing & hard work I've done.

Celany --

Great, great comment! Congrats on reaping the rewards from your hard work.

Definitely pays to make yourself more valuable to your company. I offered to help maintain my small firms website, and as the boss is a bit of a technophobe, he now views me as a bit of an asset. Hence a very welcome pay rise.

I work for the state. There's no such thing as merit raises; only seniority and the budget count. Suggestions?

Julie --

In situations where the choice is as you've detailed above, you need to compare the value of staying in a field/company that promotes like it does versus going to another field/company that promotes based on ability.

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