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June 13, 2006

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I had to pay my own way through school at 18, and I'm none the worse for wear. I did have to take out some loans, but the amount that I left school with after 4 years of college was less than the tuition for one year. I managed to take classes, work (including 2 6 month internships away from school), and run for the cross country and track teams successfully.

I think the lady is a bit off base thinking that delaying their kids maturation by 4 years while they try to get good grades is a better way to go than to make them figure out how the real world works before they are full bore stuck in it.

I like the way you described it (that thair half could come from anywhere and not strictly cash out of pocket.) That makes it a lot more managable to strike the balance between work and school and can help to minimize the student debt after graduation.

edited: I wasn't trying to imply that working through school is bad in general -- specifically I said that if the only way the child can afford school is for him to pay for it all out of pocket while they attend, it might be better to wait until they can work less before they start college. I have seen students who were not able to afford to pay for even the basic costs with their campus jobs (parents unable to help) and the real work outstripped the coursework. All that scholarship money can be lost after a semester if the grades dip. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that working _too much_ isn't beneficial, especially in majors where the grades are essential to further advancement like pre-meds/pre-laws, who basically need A's.

I teach at a community college, and most of my students work to pay their school bills. It's nothing unusual. In fact, it's half-expected in my part of the world to get a part-time job while in school. Instructors have to be flexible and keep their students' work schedules in mind. It's different at more prestigious schools where kids from high-income families have parents who can afford to pay the whole bill, or grandparents who set up a trust fund. My students are often the first in their families to go to school, and many of them are on their own.

I paid my way through school. When I was 16 and old enough to get a summer job, my mother handed me the little passbook for my savings account (back in the days before digital) and I saw that my "college account" has a whole $20 in it. I knew they'd helped my oldest brother through college, so I thought I might get a bit of a boost. Not to be. I worked, took out loans, married too early (big mistake, marrying Mr. Deadbeat), and ended up paying for the whole thing myself -- including grad school (at least there I got an assistantship which paid my tuition and a stipend).

While I wouldn't want to see my son saddled with the same school debt I came out with, I do expect him to contribute to the cost of his education, by working and by getting any scholarships he can pick up. But education costs are so high these days that paying your own way through isn't like it was in my parents' day, when you could get a job at the soda fountain part-time, and work full-time in the summer and pay down the whole thing. Kids do need help if they're to come out of school without massive debt.

I fully expect my son's education to be a family project. We've saved part of the costs, he's working to help pay part of it and will probably work part-time while he's at school, he may have to borrow some, and we'll contribute what we can.

Why not just pay for it all? Because what kids have to pay for themselves they value more, from that first toy bought with their own allowance, to the iPod they saved up for by mowing lawns. As an undergrad, I saw kids from rich families whose parents paid their way and who pretty much blew off their educations, doing the least they could get by with. And why now? Some of them already had positions in Daddy's company waiting for them. Now I see my own students who are paying their own way through school, and who understand the value of what they're paying for. They're in school nearly every day, and if they can't be, they let me know why. They get their work done, and if they're not tops academically, they're still good students.

this is just a response to your pizza-eating fear factor in China comment on mymoneyblog.

Chinese people wouldn't be scared of pizza. They eat everything (especially the Cantonese).

There's some jokes about this: "You know, if Adam and Eve had been Chinese, they would have eaten the snake"

"The only thing with four legs that Chinese people won't eat is a table."

Cute.

For the rest of you who aren't aware what I said, I left a comment at MyMoneyBlog in response to Jonathan's comment that Fear Factor's "gross food" segments are simply regular foods taken from the other parts of the world (Jonathan is in China on vacation now). I suggested that if they ever did a "Fear Factor China", they could offer pizza to be eaten. Imagine their horror!!!!!!!! ;-)

Stock mama said it way better than I did . Also the choice of college is key. A community college will more likely be willing to work with students, but a 4-year private institution is not going to. So it's helpful not to get "more college than you can afford", which is an easy trap to fall into for high-achieving HS students.

I agree with FMF that working during college isn't a hardship, but I think more students could work smarter. I studied Computer Science and I did entry level helpdesk, computer lab monitoring and programming. I could have served food in the lunch line for the same pay, but the practical exposure to my profession was immensely useful upon graduation.

"I know several people whose parent's paid 100% of their college costs. For every one person that did well in school and now has a decent job, I know three who blew off college and now work selling farm equipment insurance."

Conversely, I knew a lot of kids who tried to pay their way through college and still dropped out. Bolstering your arguement with anecdotal evidence isn't very useful and is quite insulting to those who were fortunate to have parents pay for school, and yet are hard working and have a good work ethic.

It goes both ways as far as paying for college goes. There are lots of students that don't take school as seriously because they aren't paying for it, and there are also lots of students that can't handle going to classes and working (or end up taking out lloans so large that their education doesn't actually pay for them in the long run). It has alot more to do with the student than the financial situation. You shouldn't pay for your kids education if he's the type of kid that isn't going to work hard at school (and you should know your kids well enough to know if this is true or not), but you also shouldn't refuse to pay for college out of fear that it will cause them to suddenly completely change their work ethics (plenty of kids succeed in high school and most of them aren't paying their own way through that).

There is lots of evidence that suggests that working on campus is beneficial to students beyond the extra money that is brought in (I have not seen studies that compare on campus to off campus work though).

4:05 pm -- It's insulting to me that you'd leave a comment like that and not be man/woman enough about it to claim it.

Sorry, that was me who left the comment.

Ok, so now I'm especially insulted. ;-)

Alright, now I can see where your point of view is coming from (I clicked through to your site and checked out your net worth statement).

Still, I think my point was valid. It especially hit home with me because the guy who wasted all his parents' money was my best friend in high school. Smart guy too -- B+ to A- student. But when he was handed $10,000 at a time...

As someone in college right now, paying for all of it and working part-time during the year (and full-time during the summer), I agree, working during school is extremely doable. During my first year (which was last year), I took an above average number of credits and worked part-time on campus, but it's all about managing your time.

Sure, if you spend all your free time out partying, then of course it'd be hard to manage a job and get good grades, but as long as you're sensible and try, it's not an impossible hardship by any means.

I think you're plan is a great compromise! Only a couple of my friends did not work during college, a majority did. In both situations my friends are doing well, but I would say that those that worked during college are doing better.

Working while college teaches you some of the best lessons about the real world. The saying that you use 10% of the things you learn from class in your job holds true in my opinion. The other 90% is the time management, risk management, socialization, and other soft skills which become critical once you graduate. Not to mention the fact that internships and my work experience probably helped me land the job I have today.

If you can't handle work and get good grades, I think there's a much deeper problem that needs to be addressed, and it doesn't have to do with intelligence...

your not you're...damn the grammar! :) I need to recheck before hitting that Post button...

Oh, and about that comment, "In my opinion, if not working means the child can't attend college, then it's probably a better idea to have the child defer college until the money is saved so they can really focus on their studies." I would add a huge warning on this piece of advice...I've seen first hand, a couple of my friends putting off college to work, and now they are having the hardest time going to school...Once the cash starts coming in, it's really difficult to just give it up and go back to school.

If the cash is coming in, why should they give it up? If they aren't saving the cash for college (which is really the reason they put off college) then obviously it's not going to work.

Do internships generally happen while you are taking classes at the same time? The co-op program I worked through was nice because you worked full time (making alot more money than I'd have made at any on-campus or off-campus job) every other quarter.

The best friend you mentioned obviously wasn't that smart if he wasted $10,000 of his parents money.

Anecdotal evidence is entertaining, but it goes both ways. My best friend and roomate in college was extremely intelligent but he had to pay for whatever he couldn't get covered in scholarships and that didn't make him any more likely to go to classes (his brains got him through 3 years of mechanical engineering, which is to say he's got alot of student loans left after dropping out of school). This doesn't mean every smart kid who tries to work his way through school shouldn't bother because it's a waste of money, but he's certainly have been better off not bothering. Just like it doesn't you shouldn't ever just give your kid the money for school because they'll simply waste it. It depends greatly on the kid you are talking about.

If a kid is going to party and waste their parents money, they're probably going to do the same with their own money (and time).

I think that I would have done considerably better in college if my parents hadn't paid my way as much (though I did end up with some loans). I was a perfect example of the kid with a lot of potential, who didn't do his best, because I knew that I could always re-take the class the next semester if things didn't work out. I ended up graduating, but my GPA pretty much stunk. There just wasn't mch incentive for me to work hard - my parents threatened to stop paying, but they didn't do it.

Another thing that I'll agree wholeheartedly with (that was mentioned in a previous comment), is that kids who are not rich shouldn't be going into private colleges, to get some random liberal arts degree. If there's a specific degree program that can only be had at an expensive private college, then you've got to analyze the cost vs. benefits. If you've got rich parents who are going to pay your way, then it's no problem. But there are *far* too many people (on internet forums and such) who come out of private college with *huge* debts, and a bachelors degree in History, English, Social Work, Psychology, Sociology, i.e., fairly useless degrees. Then they find that they can only make $30k with those degrees. The cost-benefit equation must be looked at before college starts. There's nothing wrong with getting a liberal arts degree - just don't pay $100k to get one if you won't be able to afford to pay it back.

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