Does a Church Worker Need to Tithe/Give Generously?

Here's a question I received on my post titled My Take on Tithing Versus Giving Generously:

Would you care to expand the discussion of 'tithing' and 'giving generously' just a bit? In my case, a few years ago I was 48 years old with a corporate career and a six-figure income. I left there and went to work for a church-based nonprofit that provides direct services to the poor. The pay cut was 60%, and it took a couple of years to fully adjust but my wife and I are now comfortable living at that level. However, we now disagree on 'giving generously.' We give 5% to the church, and I'd like to give more. She says that (1) we're already 'donating' the $60k of income that I gave up, and (2) I'm working full-time for the church, so we are making a significant contribution and don't need to give more. In a sense I agree with her, but I don't think this takes the place of cash donations to the church or to service organizations. Any thoughts on either of her points?

I've been close to a situation this man is describing myself. Twice in my career I've been offered jobs at churches -- and both of them at significantly lower compensation than I was making at the time. I considered each very carefully, but in the end felt that my calling was elsewhere.

However, I did have to consider what a big drop in pay would mean for my giving. And here's the decision I came to:

I am first and foremost a Christian and I need to abide by the teachings of Christ like any other Christian. Second, I am a church worker. The first one is who I am, the second is merely what I do (not to diminish the work of church employees, but in comparison to being a Christian, it's secondary just like any job is. After all, we are all ministers no matter what our occupations.)

That said, I would act as a Christian no matter what job I had. And to me, part of being a Christian financially is that I would tithe on my new salary. I'd tithe on the gross pay of my new salary. So, in this case, if I was now making $40k, I'd tithe $4,000.

A couple more thoughts:

• God can do more with your $40k less 10% than you can do alone with all the money in the world.

• What about the man who COULD make $100k a year but went into church work from the start and now only makes $40k? Should he get credit for his $60k "donation?"

Let me end by saying that I applaud this man's sacrifice and I believe he will be rewarded for it -- either in this life, in heaven, or both. But that said, he still needs to be faithful with what God has blessed him with and to me that means tithing on your income.

Comments

[Russell Earl Kelly]

Do you realize how legalistic you sound? Tithing on gross! You could not do that if you were a farmerm small business owner or travelling salesman witdh huge travel expenses and your gross had to pay all of your expenses first!!!
Please stop looking at percentages and give generously, give sacrificially, give as much as you can, give until it hurts. But please stop sounding like God is going to swat you if you don't pay a certain percentage. That is stupid. Jesus told his Jewish disciiples to tithe back-yard herrbs. Do you do that? I doubt it. He was not telling Gentiles who were not under the Law of Moses what to do. Russell Earl Kelly, PhD

[plonkee]

I'll preface my remarks by saying that I'm not a Christian.

I think that if you believe that you should tithe, then FMF is right. If you are a paid church worker then you are being compensated for your time so thats not a donation. The fact that you used to earn more money is neither here nor there - either you should tithe (in your own opinion) or you should not. If your beliefs have remained the same then so should your actions based upon them.

[GradGirl]

Woah there, Russell. I don't think anyone's looking for a fight. FMF just shared his thoughts on this subject. Thankfully, we are free in Christ to apply Scripture as best we can, personally.

About the post: the reward for full-time ministry, or any ministry for that matter, isn't monetary. That's why the salary is lower, that's why most missionaries/pastors don't make the big bucks. IMO, their reward is much greater and will be for eternity. I'm not comfortable telling someone else how or how not to tithe, but in my personal experience, tithing on your gross income is a way to honor the Lord.

[Stephen Davis]

Russell has got it right. I understand the frustration with those who do all of this 'gross' talk. You would think that God was some sort of heavenly bank examiner or accountant of some kind. The burden for the tithe was on the land. The land was His gift. Read Jacob's vow. Todays ministers put the burden on the people. Big difference.

[Dus10]

Frankly, I think this tithing thing is a bit crazy. I am definitely a Christian, but I am not a churchgoer. From my perspective, the Lord wants 10% of your efforts. So, if you take 10% of your time (either by paying out 10% or by working 10%) and apply it to God's works, then that qualifies as tithing. I don't think that one even has to give to a church or a faith-based organization... anything that fullfils a Christian mission, in my book, qualifies. These things typically are at least faith-based, but I suppose that they wouldn't have to be. I like giving time to Habitat for Humanity. I also donate supplies.

[Phil]

Dus10: "Christian but not a churchgoer"? I'll let that one pass since it's off topic. However - crack open the Bible and read - the Lord wants 100% of your efforts, not 10%.

IMO, FMF is much too legalistic with respect to tithing - but that doesn't let anyone off the hook and mean you can give whatever you feel you can afford. Everything belongs to God - time, talent and money: you are the manager empowered with these things to carry out God's mission here on earth. The subject post has a worker who has chosen to use the talent God gave him as a manager (or whatever qualifies him for the two positions) to further God's mission here on earth vs working for a firm that (presumably) doesn't further God's mission. The $60k pay difference is irrelevant. Instead, my view would be that God has additionally provided to the man $40k/yr to further God's mission here on earth. Note that I view providing for my family (food, roof over our heads, etc.) as acts of Christian Stewardship and also part of fulfilling God's mission here on earth. We strive to be frugal with what we spend on ourselves (both time and $) to allow for appropriate contributions to God's mission. We could, of course, do better; our culture is very seductive and demanding of our time and money away from God's mission - it's all part of the journey of discipleship.

[Phil]

Dus10: "Christian but not a churchgoer"? I'll let that one pass since it's off topic. However - crack open the Bible and read - the Lord wants 100% of your efforts, not 10%.

IMO, FMF is much too legalistic with respect to tithing - but that doesn't let anyone off the hook and mean you can give whatever you feel you can afford. Everything belongs to God - time, talent and money: you are the manager empowered with these things to carry out God's mission here on earth. The subject post has a manager who has chosen to use the talent God gave him as a manager (or whatever qualifies him for the two positions) to further God's mission here on earth vs working for a firm that (presumably) doesn't further God's mission. The $60k pay difference is irrelevant. Instead, my view would be that God has additionally provided to the man $40k/yr to further God's mission here on earth. Note that I view providing for my family (food, roof over our heads, etc.) as acts of Christian Stewardship and also part of fulfilling God's mission here on earth. We strive to be frugal with what we spend on ourselves (both time and $) to allow for additional contributions to God's mission. We could, of course do better; our culture is very seductive and demanding of our time and money away from God's mission - it's all part of the journey of discipleship.

[FMF]

Russell --

1. Before you get all upset, maybe you should read everything I've said on this subject. It's easy to criticize one small part of a piece or post, but you've obviously not read all I've had to say on this topic or you wouldn't be reacting the way you are (at least I hope not.)

2. I've addressed the issue that the gross for a business is different than a gross for a person and why in a previous post. In the examples you use above, both are businesses. Read the post and then comment with an informed opinion.

3. As I'm sure you're well aware, the Bible is full of illustrations where an example is used but it's referring to something else or explaining a principle -- and is not taken literally. For instance, in John 10:7-9, Jesus is not literally saying that he is a gate (he's a man, isn't he, how could he be a gate too?) and in Matthew 15:24 he's not saying he was sent to help sheep in Israel (he was sent to help people, not sheep, right?) When someone tries to make a principle sound silly by taking it literally when it's not meant to be, it only ends up making the one who does it sound silly.

4. Now if you want to disagree with me (like others have here), that's fine. But your points will make much more sense if you support them with an informed, rationale argument.

As I announced recently, there's an open invitation for those who want to write a post on tithing/giving to do so, send it to me, and have me publish it as a post here on a Sunday. If any of you reading this would like to actually say (in detail) what you do believe, just email me. I've already had a couple people do so and their posts will be featured on upcoming Sundays.

[Fishnguy]

I am a Christian and have been tithing for about 5 years now. At the beginning, I tithed off my net, but I now tithe off my gross.
All I can suggest to people is to "test the Lord" on this. In Malachi, the Lord actually challenges people to test him about tithing. It is the only place in scripture where the Lord uses that type of language. I have tried it for myself and the Lord has always proven His faithfulness and my wife and I have been blessed financially. I think God knows that this is a difficult issue and that is why He issues the challenge to test him.
As far as whether to tithe off the gross or net, at the end of the day it is a matter of conscience. I can't tell you what you should believe and neither can anyone else. I would suggest that if you have never tithed off your gross, that you try it and let the Lord prove His faithfulness.
I would also like to point out that I do not look at God as some kind of heavenly piggy bank, as some late night pseudo-Christian informercials do. I do not believe that all I have to do is send in my tithe and then wait by the mail box for all the money to roll in. I tithe because I believe it is scriptural and it is my way of honouring the God who saved me and changed my life. Even if God did not bless me for it, I would still tithe. For those who have never experienced the joy and blessings that come along with tithing, try it. Let God prove it for Himself.

[Rich Schmidt]

On the whole, I agree with FMF's answer to this man's question. As a pastor myself, I make less than half of what my wife makes working for the public school system as an elementary school principal. We have equivalent levels of post-graduate education & years of experience. But I don't consider the money I'm not making as a donation.

Still, it's a dilemma that this man and his wife find themselves in, and two possible solutions come to mind:

1. I wonder, if he were to present his situation to his employer, if they would give him enough of a raise so that he could give a full 10% and go home with the same after-giving income. It wouldn't be a major pay increase, and the church would get almost all of it back in his giving.

2. I've been part of a church in the past where employees were able to sign a form stating that they were taking a voluntary reduction in compensation in lieu of giving. It stated the amount they would have been paid and the amount they're "giving back" through the voluntary reduction. I think it was to allow the church to pay out less in payroll taxes or something. I really don't know the details of how it worked, but it's something I've bumped into.

Ultimately, the "tithing time/effort/skill in place of tithing money" arguments just don't work, biblically at least. Everything we have and are belongs to God. He asks us to obey him in all areas of life. We can't disobey him in one area and "make up for it" by obeying in another area.

Of course, this all assumes that you believe that God asks us to give 10% of our income in the form of a tithe. If you don't believe that, then this whole thing isn't an issue anyway.

[A Tentative Personal Finance Blog]

Some really short thoughts on why I tithe 10% on gross. God calls us to give our first fruits, not because God needs it, but it's an acknowledgment that God is the giver and everything we have is his. It's a call to give the first of everything, not just profits or net.

Second, when Christ came to fulfill the law in the new testament, the law wasn't abolished. It doesn't mean that the ten commandments don't count anymore or that tithing is just something haphazard we decide from our hearts. When Christ came, he calls us for much more than the law suggest. I'm sure FMF has covered a lot of this already, that Christ calls us to fulfill the laws of the OT in a much more extensive way. To love more, to be more devoted, to be a great disciple, etc. That includes the tithing. God calls us to more than 10% after Christ comes... he calls for everything.

This might not be as succinctly as it should be, but that's the general gist of things. The tithe isn't a "suggestion" to be fulfilled at a whim or what you think is best. It's a call to giving your first and best. It's a call to give your lives.

I really do believe Christianity has been watered down by the modern world to what people think is best. Biblical teaching has really been ignored by nominal christians for what they think is best. You really need to read up on the the bible and its teaching and not just what you think it means.

[FMF]

"I really do believe Christianity has been watered down by the modern world to what people think is best. Biblical teaching has really been ignored by nominal christians for what they think is best. You really need to read up on the the bible and its teaching and not just what you think it means."

Preach it, brother!!!!!!!

[Rick]

I find the vitriol in some of the comments disheartening. FMF is not too legalistic. And certainly, I see nothing where he tells *you* what to do. I see where he evaluates the situation and then made a decision for himself. That's exactly the appropriate response.

That said, I *personally* feel the emphasis on 10% is all around appropriate. The 10% rule comes from the Old Testament, and it simply doesn't apply to us. I know many people who try to interpret it like it does, but it is simply part of the Old Covenant law and doesn't apply as a law to Christians today.

What does apply is the fact that *all* of our resources -- time, money, abilities -- belongs 100% to God. We are to glorify God, honor God, and worship God in everything we do. This includes giving back to God -- in time, money, and abilities -- some of what He's given to us. It is a decision and conviction between each person and God how much he gives to God. For some people this is 2%. For others, it's 90%.

Just remember Matthew 6:19-20 (paraphrased): Do not build up treasure here on earth where moths and rust destroy, but build up treasure in heaven which is eternal. What is more important, being able to afford a nicer house/car, or winning another soul to eternal life?

[Rick]

I meant to say, "I feel the emphasis on 10% is all around inappropriate."

[Stephen Davis]

It is 'gather the usual suspects' time. Same verses, same arguments. May I offer some different verses.

I have a list of about ten. All point to the 'greed' of the shepherds. It is not about our love and service to God. It is about this great test of our faith. No Christian should ever give a single thought to the percentage of his or her gift. We are simply free from that.

Observation one. The fruit of the land is parallel to the manna. Both have a suppliment of flesh that went with the main course of bread. Do any of you know what 'flesh' went with the fruit of the land? Few do. REad Deut. 12.

Both have a tenth part taken from them to put in storage. The manna in a pot. The fruit of the land in the storehouse.

Replace the tithe of the land with money only if you are willing to replace the bread of heaven with money also.

Zech. 11...."They weigh for my price (salary, wage) thirty pieces of silver." The exchange of the tithe of land is the same as the exchange of the tithe of manna. To exchange either is to 'weigh for salary'. The prophecy says first...If you think good....if not forbear. I say to take the second option. Forbear or leave it alone.

[Stephen Davis]

It is something like Godzilla meets Bambi. To relate the money taken as a tithe to the thirty pieces of silver that Christ was exchanged. It came as a question to me when I read Deuteronomy 14:25. This is the one verse in the bible that has 'tithe' and money in the same verse. In God's mind, there is a separation of tithe and money. When you exchange the tithe for money, then you no longer have a tithe do you? Yet, this argument is only one of about ten that I have that are not the 'usual suspects' of verses to disprove the notion of monetary tithe payments by believers.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this parallel?

[tithe]

if part of being a Christian financially is giving a tithe, then what would be the other part of being a Christian financially?

[FMF]

Tithe --

Lots of things -- read my other posts on the subject. Examples:

1. Treating your finances as a steward -- recognizing God as the owner of it ALL.

2. Giving offerings above the tithe.

3. Managing your finances in accordance with God's Word.

[tithe]

FMF --
There's only one common theme to being a christian financially. That is stewardship. Everything from 1% to 100% falls under that. Stewardship is the principle. Tithing was an OT object lesson that is done with.

[Mike]

Thanks to FMF for contemplating and responding to my original question on this topic, and thanks to all those who took the time to add their thoughts. The conversation has been quite helpful and I will be revisiting the issue of tithing with my wife. I do agree with FMF's take on this. Best regards,

[Cristine Schafer]

Well, tithing is a result of legalities enforced after God rescued the Israelites from their bondage to Egyptian capture. That being noted, tithing is 'legalistic', but then Jesus also mentioned the passage from Hosea 6:6 placing the emphasis on mercy rather than sacrifice. Something that I am always rethinking when I face tithing.