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July 25, 2007

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"Our products are based on science and facts. That's it."
Does this sentence even have a meaning? I would hope you're products have at least some basis in science and facts, because one based on mysticism and lies would certainly be a poor product indeed.

However, the issue here is not your product, the issue is your pricing, something that has a very relative and personal meaning for everyone. Even if you think that your price is fair and reasonable, such an opinion will vary greatly for every person depending on their own personal circumstances. I would think you, as a salesperson, would understand this.

For the kind of people who frequent this site, such products are not a value or a necessity, they are an unnecessary luxury. You're not likely to convince anyone here otherwise.

$5k for a set of pots and pans? Are you kidding me? They better go to the grocery store, prepare the food and serve it to me for that price. I'll take my cast iron skillet and invest the $5k so my kid can go to college.

I have All-Clad, plus a huge assortment of cooking devices of various brands. The various tools do what they intend, and all work very well. That said, a fancy cooking set does not make a good (or healthy) meal. Only the operator can do that. You will see little difference in cooking your meals with one pan or another. I've used cheap pans, and my expensive All-Clad and..yes, it all tastes the same.

As for Saladmaster, I would never buy it. Why did I spend money on All-Clad? Because they look nice hanging over my kitchen island. I just think pots and pans with plastic handles look cheap and ugly.

So that's my confession. I have expensive pans. But I don't fool myself that it makes my food any better.

To all the Saladmaster representatives: please name a few top chefs who cook with Saladmaster.

If this stuff really makes "pancakes taste more like shortbread," saves time, and makes food more healthful, Charlie Trotter, Thomas Keller, and Alain Ducasse should all be using it.

I think I'm going to go up to my kitchen and give a big kiss to my 18/10 stainless with aluminum core pots that we bought -- 3 for $100 -- 12 years ago with wedding money. Still in perfect condition -- oops, except for one little dent from when one jumped out of the pot rack onto the floor.

And an even bigger kiss to my two nonstick Sitram steel pans that cost $50 each -- and one was a gift.

Gosh, $150 over 12 years for enough pans to cook all we want! What a steal. :)

Sandy --

When you go from "information" to "commercial" is when I cut it off. If you want to buy an ad, I'm sure there are many sites to help you out.

I'll be the first to admit that having good cookware makes a big difference. I don't know anything about saladware, but there are good alternatives in the 100s of dollars rather than the thousands.

joe - it takes of education to invest in quality. No one buys stuff like Saladmaster from sites like this, or even assume that it would be available. You really think that is my purpose here? Funny.

The responses to this are amazing. Really amazing.

I bought my set as a graduate student. I'm on my third car since that set.
Say what you want, just because I now work with the product doesn't mean I do so because I needed a job. My background was in Health Sciences/Neuromuscular Therapy.
Yes, sciences, not sales.

Sales is what financial and insurance guys do.
Money you can make over and over again. Your health and time is a little more valuable and irreplaceable.

Joe, I'm sure you have a very nice car and stereo. After all, we often get judged by our ride, not on how we prepare our food, or what it gets prepared in. That's why Diabetes, obesity and heart disease are all epidemics. But what does that have to do with Cookware eh? Food and health? You have to be joking! Beer is where it's at.

Guess if I was talking Weight Watchers on this site you'd think I wanted to sign you boys up.

I must say, this little financial page is getting interesting. The key here is to staying healthy so that you can spend all of your money. Right? Waterless cookware like Saladmaster just keeps you looking good on your Harley.

Ahhhh, now THAT makes sense to you .....

( no Mr. editor, I don't own a Harley )

Sandy --

Do you have scientific proof from a third party research firm (not associated with Saladmaster) or some sort of endorsement from the government that validates your claims of Saladmaster's health benefits? If not, I'm sure the FDA (or some like organization) would be quite interested to investigate your claims in detail.

Anne there are. I don't know the guys who you named. Chefs are not into health cooking as much as flavor. They use a lot of salt, oil etc. Salt covers up bitters.

Marcus Von Albrecht at Dubrulle.
Chef John - Cordon Bleu
Eudo Erasumus - oops, not a chef, just a health expert.
The Alive Kitchens : Alive magazine - oops again. More health stuff.

Just like most coffee places now filter their water, it's an education for everyone.
Like I said, that's why the proof is in the pudding and why those silly dinners are done. So much easier to pay people in a large decked out store to stand and say, ' can I help you?"
What looks the same, isn't.

Look folks .. it's a cleaner steel = cleaner flavors THAT's it.
Canned pineapple? Fresh Pinapple?
Canned beer, bottled beer?
Canned wine ... oh.

FMF - do you really think this is new information?

Johns Hopkins " The combination of heat, water and oxygen is disatrous to vitamins and minerals..."
University of Madison, department of Food Science. Wisconsin. 93-98% nutritional retention.
pH Miracle ( Dr. Rober Young Author of the pH Miracle offers a very detailed 3rd party discussion - the link that I tried to give you but you erased as I was using propoganda )

Cooking without water. Water washes out/disolves minerals/salts = nutrition
( Water soluble nutrients ) IE soup - flavor comes out of the meat and veggies
Color is nutrition, flavor is also.

Cooking below the temperature of boiling ( 212 ), steam ( 232 ) nuking ( 400+ ) saves
Heat sensitive nutrients = flash pasterization vs sterilization??
Oxidation = exposure to oxygen = nutrition damage and color loss ( Waterless cookware creates a semi-vacuum to a solid one = no AIR.
Oxidation is the aging process as well.

Light Damage - do I need to say 'cold dark cellar' or
Chemical reaction- again, do a google search on 316L applications and then look more closely at the foods we cook and see if they can be corrosive. Milk must be stored in select metals due to it's reactive nature. You can phone a dairy farmer for that one.

FMF - this is not new material, just new to lots of people. Hence education.
This method of cooking has been around for over 60 years.

Do some research... you don't like what I say anyway. Find it out for yourself. The information is out there. Then once again, if you saw a meal prepared in Saladmaster you'd be even more educated on the subject. It's like test driving a titanium driver - how do you explain the feeling of hitting one of those things to a non golfer? THAT's crazy.

Test Drive, test drive, test drive ... or just stay on the couch and be happy. Lots of folks would rather do that anyway. Just like global warming and pollution we need proof on as well. Recycling is a pain!

I've got to run, I'm cooking a dinner for a fellow who owns a large welding company. When I told him that we have 316L in our cookware he said, "You'e kidding me!" and wanted to see it. But I really think he is interested in the 30 minute meals from frozen as his wife is kind of busy with the grand kids during the day. Then she has to cook as they don't eat out much. Anyway, I asked him if they already have cookware at home. He said 'Of course, why?" I said," Because I hate pressure."

Good luck FMF, really.

Wow thats alot of information to take in there. But I agree with what Beyondtheconsumer said. The health of the food isnt about what its cooked in but who cooks it. I got my bachelors from CIA. Thats the Culinary Institute of America. They don't teach us to cook with Saladmasters. Although alot of my professors had them at home. Right next to the Telflon Emerill style cookware that they use on a daily basis as well. But my favorite professor told our class that "IF looking at your cookware makes you want to cook then it has succeeded in its purpose." But now going back to school for my phd in Natural Medicine I really couldnt afford the 5k pricetag for Saladmaster. I dont think that makes me cheap or un-healthly.

Sandy - the people you are naming are not three-star chefs. They are cooking school instructors. Big difference. My point is, if this stuff is really the most fabulous cookware anywhere--"perfect," you called it--Michelin-starred chefs would be using it.
Ferran Adria would be all over it!

I love that your rebuttal was, "Chefs are not into health cooking as much as flavor." Weren't you just going on and on about how much better the food made in Saladmaster tastes? Didn't you just say "Look folks .. it's a cleaner steel = cleaner flavors THAT's it"?

Sandy - the people you are naming are not three-star chefs. They are cooking school instructors. Big difference. My point is, if this stuff is really the most fabulous cookware anywhere--"perfect," you called it--Michelin-starred chefs would be using it.
Ferran Adria would be all over it!

I love that your rebuttal was, "Chefs are not into health cooking as much as flavor." Weren't you just going on and on about how much better the food made in Saladmaster tastes? Didn't you just say "Look folks .. it's a cleaner steel = cleaner flavors THAT's it"?

FMF - this is not new information. But it is to many. Yet when was the last time you were looking for an energy efficient cooking system that was a healthier and faster way to cook? People shy away from 'expensive', which is why there is so much mid and low range out there.

Waterless Cookware has been around for decades. Unless you are familiar with it, we think that one cannot hard boil an egg without water. Technology - yes you can. It's the equipment that is desingned to do things differently,
Saladmaster and some other Realware/Westbend brands, heats up all around the food as opposed to simply heating up from the bottom ... cooking the food in 3 directions - the heat goes in from the lid down, the sides inward and the bottom up = no stirring and even heat distribution so that each piece works like an oven - except the moisture in the meat/food does not escape so there is hardly any volume loss in the food - no more football size roasts turning into softballs!

The lids are very important - like the door of an oven. They are heavier, trasmit the heat downward into the food and seal like an oven door would, except 70% more efficiently than an oven does. Then they go into a vacuum and powercook on very low energy.

Hard to believe? Yes, which is why we bake a cake on top of the stove at a dinner ... without adding a drop of oil, even water. It bakes in 15 minutes on the energy of 1-2 100 watt lightbulbs as opposed to the 34-40 minutes in a 350 degree oven.
We do this in front of you .. because we can. You can even be the one who flips the chicken or who washed the pan if you really want to see for yourself. It's participation so that you know it is not the cook who makes the difference! I mean, you know it's not us professional demonstrators who trick you into something.

( Saladmaster is a PowerSmart rated product - testing done by BC Powertec Labs - BC Hydro - B.C. Canada ... a province in Canada).

3 lb Roast in the oven 2.2 hours using 1.45 Kw energy vs 38 minutes in Saladmaster using .445 Kw of energy. 70% savings.

Johns Hopkins " The combination of heat, water and oxygen is disatrous to vitamins and minerals..."
University of Madison, department of Food Science. Wisconsin. 93-98% nutritional retention.
pH Miracle ( Dr. Rober Young Author of the pH Miracle offers a very detailed 3rd party discussion - the link that I tried to give you but you erased it and suggested heavily that I was doing a commercial ... )

Cooking without water. Water washes out/disolves minerals/salts = nutrition
( Water soluble nutrients ) IE soup - flavor comes out of the meat and veggies
Color is nutrition, flavor is also.

Cooking below the temperature of boiling ( 212 ), steam ( 232 ) nuking ( 400+ ) saves
Heat sensitive nutrients = flash pasterization vs sterilization??
Oxidation = exposure to oxygen = nutrition damage and color loss ( Waterless cookware creates a semi-vacuum to a solid one = no AIR.
Oxidation is the aging process as well.

Light Damage - do I need to say 'cold dark cellar' or
Chemical reaction- again, do a google search on 316L applications and then look more closely at the foods we cook and see if they can be corrosive. Milk must be stored in select metals due to it's reactive nature. You can phone a dairy farmer for that one.

FMF - this is not new material, just new to lots of people. Hence education.
This method of cooking has been around for over 60 years.

Do some research... you don't like what I say anyway. Find it out for yourself. The information is out there. Then once again, if you saw a meal prepared in Saladmaster you'd be even more educated on the subject. It's like test driving a titanium driver - how do you explain the feeling of hitting one of those things to a non golfer? THAT's crazy.

Test Drive, test drive, test drive ... or just stay on the couch and be happy. Lots of folks would rather do that anyway. Just like global warming and pollution we need proof on as well. Recycling is a pain!

I've got to run, I'm cooking a dinner for a fellow who owns a large welding company. When I told him that we have 316L in our cookware he said, "You'e kidding me!" and wanted to see it. But I really think he is interested in the 30 minute meals from frozen as his wife is kind of busy with the grand kids during the day. Then she has to cook as they don't eat out much. Anyway, I asked him if they already have cookware at home. He said 'Of course, why?" I said," Because I hate pressure."

Please use google, and your science resources. Although you will never really know until you see it for yourself, or taste the difference, it will be better than listening to customers like myself who you think are only heavy hitting distributors and selling vultures who just want your money.

Oh my goodness, you guys are all over this.
Go and try it out for yourselves! But don't knock it until you've tried it!

Bravo that you are going to be an ND. There will be lots more topics for you to debate on these type of sites.
If you are going to be an ND then you will encounter this method again. My goodness, it's common sense folks. Water even makes stawberries watery = flavor loss! Canned fruit?! You tell me that you can't taste the difference?

If your classes at the ND college are science based and you realize that water dissolves minerals, and that foods are full of water soluble elements .... 2 + 2 = ?
Heat destroys nutrients - they even 'cold process' oils - higher heats break them down.
Maybe this would make a good thesis topic.
And yes, what do those teaching chefs know anyway???? I guess it's true, the only information worth knowing is what you learn after you know it all.
Life is about being open minded to new ideas. Good luck in ND school is all I can say.
And good luck getting people to pay for your services as they are not recognized as 'REAL' medicine yet. And you know what I mean. Your battle is as uphill as is ours. It however does not make it less valid just because we are both a minority in the eyes of the masses.
Thank you

Anne - there is so much to discover about this cooking system that is different than convenional cooking. If you want to pick apart my sentances, then you may as well do my spelling and grammar as well.

See it, try it, then we can discuss it as we will be on a similar page then.
Otherwise this is like trying to convince my Mother to get a computer and that pictures will get to Denmark in seconds. Yeah, right! How laughable is that one!

Who on earth is Feran Adria??
Did she go to a chef academy where there are only instructing chefs doing the teaching?

The fry pans are the same price as the top all-clad.
But you're right, most students can't afford 5 grand for extra stuff like Saladmaster. Isn't pizza a perfect food anyway?
Where did the 5 grand come from anyway? That's like saying VW only offers a $50,000 vehicle.

I drink nice wine and cannot get over the difference when using the appropriate Reidel Glass. Any takers on that one?
( this should be good! )

Yes I am a rep - part time now for 10 years.
Sorry, sometimes I just go by Deb.
Wasn't trying to be sneaky, just typing fast and getting my son to hockey.

Yes, shortbread. I know, I know. Better Homes and Garden recipe except I don't use any oil in the mix of on the pan. You just don't need to.

I read one question here asking to come up with famous chefs endorsing SM. I do not understand the mentality behind that. If a brand [no matter how bad] once endorsed by a famous name all of a sudden becomes reliable. So, it is ok to pay multi-million to one person just to endorse a product and yet it is not ok to pay a person working hard demonstrating, house-to-house, products [like SM] just to earn an honest living? Maybe the reason why SM is not using famous chefs/actors to endorse their product, aside from all its good qualities, is maybe it is providing income to ordinary working citizen.

When did I mention endorsements? I'm talking about chefs buying the stuff themselves, if it's so perfect.

Well this is fun. Realize that this argument is between the frugal crowd that unless you show substantial cost savings probably isn't going to buy it, and a zealot resale group that is taught to argue the points of the product.

It will never end ;-).

However, here is a point I think most can appreciate.

My wife and I had 3 various sets of pots and pans that we used, with the total value probably being about $450 for everything when we got married this year. They've lasted us so far (already a few years old), and show no real sign of wear or tear, so I imagine they'll last at least 10 years. If we take a 4% yearly inflation rate and 5% depreciation rate, in today's dollars they'll be worth about $190 at the end of that 10 years. So my net cost (excluding opportunity cost, etc..) is $260.

People are suggesting that I sell them now and go purchase $4000 cookware. Let's assume the depreciation is half since they're so special, and in 10 years they'll be worth $2131. Cost there is now $1869.

The cost difference is $1609. In 10 years, will these pots and pans save me $1609 in energy costs? If we don't compensate for rate changes, etc.. that's $13.41/month.. Considering there will be rate hikes and the claims being made here, maybe that is doable.

However, if I take that $4000 right now and invest it an index fund that only returns 8% for the next 10 years, I have ~$8636.

So... assuming the energy savings pay for the pan, I'm still out $4636 in appreciation over that time. For $39/mo I can afford to buy some healthier items , pre-cooked items, go out to eat a bit more, etc.. All the things that will give me an easier and happier life.

A few people on here said that cooking is a job, well that means most people would like to use the money they save to avoid doing it. It seems like a poor investment to me. I think I'll use my $39 for the next few months to go buy some new running shoes and celery.

You can keep your pots, no one here is buying.

It seems evident that there is a difference of opinions.
It also seems that those putting down this product, don't own any nor have they even experienced them, and that I find odd.

Interesting that one can make a judgement call on something that they no nothing about, except for a price tag. We went to a dinner hosted by some good friends of ours. The evening was not only interesting, but very enjoyable. We were exposed to a method of food preparation that made sense to us. Very impressive to say the least.

We all know that prices of products vary based on the quality, manufacturing challenges and even sometimes the design. Certainly some common sense might come into play as what looks the same isn't always such.

Making a call before collecting all of the facts and data .. sounds like the Bush administration.

We have the pans. We are very, very pleased with them and have referred many to the product. We have no regrets and feel that we made a wise investment in this cooking system.

Daniel --

I think the reaction is justified because the price is so over-the-top (which is a problem with many direct-sold products.)

I, too, sat through the demonstration/dinner and it was fine. What wasn't fine was the price tag.

So I'm not judging it without having seen the product.

Interesting site. Everyone of us has a reason why we feel negative or positive about the product depending on the various experiences that we had. And at this point in time, no one is wrong!

But no one has really discussed the issue on why the product is expensive other than it's made of 316L steel. My friend was a consultant for a short time. She can sell because the product is indeed good. She stopped doing it because she had negative experience with the dealer.

The commissions being paid for first level of sales rep is 15% of the purchase price and can go up to 25% if you are a senior sales rep. What about the dealer? If the dealer gets an equal % then 50% of the price is for the distribution cost.

Think about it. Maybe, Saladmater can reach more households if this is displayed in high-end department store where the cost of distribution would be much lower. Don't you think so?

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