Comments on Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?TypePad2008-01-24T13:45:00ZNAhttps://www.freemoneyfinance.com/tag:typepad.com,2003:https://www.freemoneyfinance.com/2008/01/do-you-boycott/comments/atom.xml/Matt commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e5502d093588332008-02-11T15:40:48Z2008-02-11T15:40:48ZMattMore on that 1973 bottom 90% statistic cited in Bob Herbert's column. As I mentioned previously, Bob Herbert used David...<p>More on that 1973 bottom 90% statistic cited in Bob Herbert's column. As I mentioned previously, Bob Herbert used David Cay Johnston's book "Free Lunch" as his source. </p>
<p>I was in a book store yesterday and happened to see that book. I flipped to the end notes and found out that the statistics came from a paper by Emmanuel Saez and Thomas Piketty.</p>
<p>First of all, I can confirm that they are using the Consumer Price Index as their estimate of inflation. So the criticism on that point in my previous comment stands.</p>
<p>Next, Alan Reynolds at the Wall Street Journal wrote a "Truth in Numbers" piece called "The Top 1%...of What?" (<a href="http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110009398)" rel="nofollow">http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110009398)</a> debunking Saez and Piketty's work. It turns out Saez and Piketty are using income as reported on tax returns. This is even more problematic than the Census Bureau's household numbers.</p>
<p>Worst of all, in my view, is that Saez and Piketty's numbers exclude the effect of transfer payments (as do the census bureau's household figures, by the way). If you pretend the earned income tax credit doesn't exist, or that the top 10% aren't being taxed on a much higher proportion of their incomes than the bottom 90%, you're not looking at what people actually get to spend. It grossly overstates income inequality.</p>Matt commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e5502c61b488342008-02-06T03:20:30Z2008-02-06T03:20:30ZMattSarah, I have moved on from Walmart, but I will trouble myself to defend capitalism generally. I'd like to get...<p>Sarah,</p>
<p>I have moved on from Walmart, but I will trouble myself to defend capitalism generally.</p>
<p>I'd like to get a look at David Cay Johnston's footnotes in "Free Lunch", but I can guess at a couple of the problems with the way he's interpreting the data.</p>
<p>The unreliability of compounding inflation over the years is the first one. This is especially true when using the CPI as a measure of inflation. Many economists believe that the CPI overstates inflation by at least a percentage point (<a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE3D91E39F932A35755C0A960958260" rel="nofollow">http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE3D91E39F932A35755C0A960958260</a> "More Overstatement Found for Inflation in Price Index"). Over 32 years (1973 to 2005), a percentage point is a very big deal. For example, inflation of 4% over 32 years amounts to a factor of 3.5; 3% would only be 2.6. If he was using the CPI, the magnitude of that difference could easily reverse his conclusion if a better estimate were used.</p>
<p>Another common trick is to use the household figures for incomes in some cases, and the per-capita figures in other cases. The problem is that over the years, as incomes have risen, the average number of individuals per household has fallen. Paul Krugman has used this trick to create the illusion for unsuspecting readers of more prosperity and economic expansion during democratic administrations than republican ones. In general, the household figures understate income growth over time.</p>
<p>To be fair, again, I haven't seen Johnston's footnotes, and frankly, at this point, it's a little more effort than I'm willing to invest. For readers who would like to learn more about how income statistics can be used to mislead, I refer you to "Economic Facts and Fallacies" by Thomas Sowell. If nothing else, approach what you read in the NY Times (or any newspaper) with a healthy dose of critical thinking and skepticism. Journalists are notoriously easy to bamboozle with statistics.</p>Sarah commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e55027705488342008-02-04T03:26:47Z2008-02-04T03:26:47ZSarahSince this argument's long over, I won't try rebutting people who've long moved on, but anyone coming in late who...<p>Since this argument's long over, I won't try rebutting people who've long moved on, but anyone coming in late who is curious about where I got the 1973 figure:</p>
<p>Bob Herbert, "Good Jobs Are Where the Money Is" (<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/19/opinion/19herbert.html?scp=2&sq=income+1973&st=nyt)" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/19/opinion/19herbert.html?scp=2&sq=income+1973&st=nyt)</a></p>Mike W commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e55011fb5288332008-02-03T21:09:16Z2008-02-03T21:09:16ZMike WI wonder if Karen boycott's any organizations who have an atheistic worldview and force their brand of cultural relativism on...<p>I wonder if Karen boycott's any organizations who have an atheistic worldview and force their brand of cultural relativism on people? From her comments about the "Big Daddy In the Sky", I would guess that she only has this open hostility towards organizations that believe in Biblical Christianity. Just a guess....</p>Notafanboy commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e550264a3c88342008-02-03T13:01:28Z2008-08-27T12:19:46ZNotafanboyOh definately never buy Microsoft. I would rather eat my spleen than give MSFT money. Generally I also avoid American...<p>Oh definately never buy Microsoft. I would rather eat my spleen than give MSFT money. </p>
<p>Generally I also avoid American companies as far as possible, seeing as i HATE America's world socio-economical and political policies, it's repressive trade policies, abuse of a flawed free-trade model, the war on Iraq, the war on Iran, the war on Palestine etc. I used to be pretty much alone on this policy in my social group until about 2 years ago, now I'm seeing more and more people boycotting the USA for the same reason. </p>
<p>Good luck with that upcoming economic recession, Bush should have known that starting a war only postpones and worsens economic woes.</p>Anon anon commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e55022651288342008-02-01T22:26:31Z2008-02-03T21:05:28ZAnon anonI don't shop at Wal-mart because it is usual dark and dingy in there. I avoid shopping at Wendy's because...<p>I don't shop at Wal-mart because it is usual dark and dingy in there. <br />
I avoid shopping at Wendy's because their stereotypical portray of redheads is offensive.</p>
<p>I boycott Trader Joes, Whole Foods and Costco because the people who shop there are self-righteous, pompous idiots.</p>
<p>-- cheers!</p>Andrew commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e5500c0dd288332008-02-01T16:57:29Z2008-02-01T16:57:29ZAndrewI try to boycott any businesses that directly support the state of Israel's occupation of Palestinians and/or racist laws within...<p>I try to boycott any businesses that directly support the state of Israel's occupation of Palestinians and/or racist laws within the country.</p>
<p>For example I might try to buy AMD processors due to Intel's lack of hesitation to build on land where just days before an entire Palestinian village, whose inhabitants had to flee their homes, is bulldozed and leveled.</p>
<p>More important to me is boycotting any business that might encourage and support the system of settlements. For example a business that opens up in any of the illegal settlements in East Jerusalem or the West Bank.</p>
<p>Finally, there are even those businesses that are directly tied to settlement building and the racist policies behind settlements/apartheid, such as Lev Leviev's Africa-Israel, LIDAR, and more... So I would support the boycott of his diamond stores in New York and London due to other subsidiaries he owns actually building settlements on stolen Palestinian land (such as the villages of Bil'in and Jayyous, currently fighting over settlement attempts almost daily).</p>Philip commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e5500c0a1288332008-02-01T16:55:11Z2008-08-28T06:44:03ZPhilipThere are a few businesses I refuse to patronize, most notably Wal-Mart because of the way it treats its employees...<p>There are a few businesses I refuse to patronize, most notably Wal-Mart because of the way it treats its employees (read Nickeled and Dimed), Chick Fil-A because of its close association with anti-gay "charities" like Focus on the Family, and Microsoft because of their obsession with extinguishing open standards (see, for a few examples of many, the Halloween Documents).</p>
<p>It's not exactly a boycott, but I also don't own a car or other form of motorized transportation, so less of my money goes to oil companies.</p>Ryan commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e5500be1e588332008-02-01T16:28:29Z2008-08-29T12:17:05ZRyanI avoid shopping at companies that score poorly in the Human Rights Coalition book on the subject, which is printed...<p>I avoid shopping at companies that score poorly in the Human Rights Coalition book on the subject, which is printed annually.</p>Paul commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e5501f49c088342008-02-01T12:12:09Z2008-02-01T12:12:11ZPaulI agree with some of those mentioned(Walmart) and have friends that believe in others(Sony) for all of our own reasons,...<p>I agree with some of those mentioned(Walmart) and have friends that believe in others(Sony) for all of our own reasons, but the one that makes me the most ill is Microsoft. This is one of the most abusive monopolies ever. They bully PC makers(how hard is it right now to buy a PC with XP), steal things they cannot create themselves(Stacker/Goldtouch/countless others). Then simply pay the fine/fees/settlement and move on. They hijack/corrupt public standards(OOXML) voting, and change document formats at will(how many .doc files can you open with Office 2007). Microsoft spends roughly the same amount of money on the hill each year as the RJ Reynolds Tobacco......hmmmm</p>splurg commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e5501e7fa388342008-02-01T09:46:39Z2008-08-29T21:13:52ZsplurgI won't touch anything from Sony - even though they make great Cameras. Why? The installed a rootkit on their...<p>I won't touch anything from Sony - even though they make great Cameras. Why? The installed a rootkit on their music cds, they claimed to have mp3 support on their mini-discs but didn't (it converted it to their own crap format), they don't support SD cards, they constantly try to push their own inferior formats, ever since they bought a Movie studio and Music studio they have crippled all their great hardware, their laptops are really bad, etc...</p>Karen commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e5501d92d288342008-02-01T07:03:36Z2008-02-01T07:03:37ZKarenAt this point, I boycott so many places it's hard to find somewhere to shop. I boycott a lot of...<p>At this point, I boycott so many places it's hard to find somewhere to shop. </p>
<p>I boycott a lot of places for sexist/objectification practices. This includes not only Victoria's Secret (their stuff is tacky and cheap looking anyway) but also Abercrombie because of their gigantic billboards with nearly naked men. Sex may sell, but not to me. I boycott American Apparel because they are sexist and because the owner appears to be a pedophile. Of course I boycott WalMart, who doesn't? I boycott H.E.B. grocery stores for carrying sexist magazines. ("Hooters" Magazine? Even the name is pure objectification. Why would any family grocery store whose primary customers are women carry a magazine that so blatantly reduces women to nothing more than a body part?) </p>
<p>I boycott pet supply stores that sell animals, because of the whole Puppy Farm issue, and because you should get pets from shelters. I boycott any company that indulges in animal cruelty. </p>
<p>I boycott any business that forces it's religion on people. I boycott the Salvation Army because they attempt to help people by substituting one crutch (religion) for another (alcohol or whatever.) Why can't they teach people to stand on their own two feet and depend on themselves, instead of teaching them to depend on some fantasy Big Daddy in the Sky? I boycott any large company that closes on Sunday "so that our employees can go to church". Excuse me, but some people believe the Sabbath is on Saturday, and some people practice entirely different religions with different days and times for worshiping, so how can a corporation put the needs of one religion before all others? </p>
<p>I won't give to medical charities, because after working for two years at Baylor College of Medicine, I discovered that the money you donate to cure this or that disease doesn't go to pay for lab supplies or equipment, it goes to pay insanely inflated salaries as the hospitals/colleges compete for prestigious doctors, and it also goes to pay for the limo that picks up the doctor's wife at the airport after she gets back from her vacation. (Yes, I've seen them turn this in as an expense.) If you want to help with a disease, give your money to the family directly to help with their expenses. How long has Jerry Lewis been doing those telethons, how many millions has he raised, and they STILL haven't cured it? Donate to an organization that buys the ill people wheelchairs or something. <br />
<br />
I boycott any place that requires me to turn over my personal information in order to get a Savings Card and receive "special pricing" on everything in the store. Not talking about Costco, I'm talking about stores like Kroger, or anyplace where they have the regular price and the special card price on every single item. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Buy local. Buy mom-and-pop. Buy with your conscience. If WalMart is the only store in your area, it's because you put the others out of business by buying from WalMart instead. </p>Stephen D commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e550085acc88332008-02-01T04:43:58Z2008-08-29T17:06:14ZStephen DSorry, my last sentence should have read as "..have _my_ college degree..."<p>Sorry, my last sentence should have read as "..have _my_ college degree..."<br />
</p>Somebody commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e55008004188332008-02-01T03:30:19Z2008-08-29T12:19:20ZSomebodyI've lived perfectly well without having to set foot on Walmart. I also avoid anything that plays or advertises on...<p>I've lived perfectly well without having to set foot on Walmart. I also avoid anything that plays or advertises on MTV ( garbage anyway) and FOX News.</p>Stephen D commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e55007c82a88332008-02-01T02:50:40Z2008-02-01T02:50:40ZStephen DI also avoid Exxon (and now Mobil) as previously mentioned. I also go out of my way to avoid as...<p>I also avoid Exxon (and now Mobil) as previously mentioned.<br />
I also go out of my way to avoid as much as possible companies that pay for naming rights to stadiums / fields / arenas / events or use celebrities just for the sake of using a celebrity to shill for their product or service. It is getting tougher and tougher to cut off my nose to spite my face with regards to avoiding those companies, but I keep tilting at those windmills.<br />
Think of all the college bowl games - the students can't get any money, but yet during the game they are wearing uniforms with the sponsor's name on it and thereby forced to shill for fed ex and the other companies.<br />
Why does every piece of information today have to have a "presented by" or "sponsored by" attached to it? I am not going to buy your product just because you decided to "present" or "sponsor" the super bowl half-time show (yes, Bridgestone, I'm talking to you this year). Good thing I already have more college degree, so I don't have to worry about applying to that "school" that is wasting "students'" money on the naming rights for the stadium.</p>Little Miss Moneybags commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e5501c02f288342008-02-01T02:41:32Z2008-08-27T12:21:09ZLittle Miss Moneybagshttp://littlemissmoneybags.blogspot.comI have boycotted different businesses at different times, but it's usually in direct reaction to a way that I was...<p>I have boycotted different businesses at different times, but it's usually in direct reaction to a way that I was treated by someone there, and now that I think about it, it's often been local independent places. There was the restaurant where the waitress added $10 to her tip on my credit card and the manager laughed at me instead of working with me when I called to complain. Things like that. </p>
<p>When I was a teenager I frequently boycotted companies for idealogical reasons (The Gap stands out in my mind) but I don't do that so much now. Any place that charges more than they're worth gets boycotted just by virtue of me not shopping there. :)</p>bmw commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e5501baecf88342008-02-01T01:14:35Z2008-08-29T00:37:40ZbmwYes I do... For me i would love to have a iphone... but since its tied to AT&T aka the...<p>Yes I do... For me i would love to have a iphone... but since its tied to AT&T aka the death star who spies on americans for the government, i wont ever buy one.</p>Mike K commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e5501b8c0188342008-02-01T00:32:59Z2008-02-01T00:33:00ZMike KI boycott Best Buy because of their criminal behavior.<p>I boycott Best Buy because of their criminal behavior.</p>Eric commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e5500759e288332008-02-01T00:19:45Z2008-02-01T00:19:45ZEricI boycott Circuit City due to the fact that a few years ago they instituted a salary cap at their...<p>I boycott Circuit City due to the fact that a few years ago they instituted a salary cap at their retail stores, thus eliminating the jobs of their most experienced and competent associates. Being formerly in the electronics industry, I like to know that the people answering my questions actually know the answers, and aren't making stuff up. And really, Circuit City never had anything special to it to me anyway.</p>
<p>I also boycott Best Buy due to their terrible customer service, specifically in their warranty department. I have had 4 separate and distinct issues with Best Buy over them not wanting to honor the PRP that they sold me. Of course, you would think I'd learn not to buy the warranty after the first one (and now I almost always opt out of extended warranties), but the way these situations were handled was completely inappropriate, even once with a manager directly telling me I was lying to him.</p>
<p>I typically try to support local small businesses near me. I buy most groceries from my local meat market, and produce from a farm nearby when it's in season. I spend more this way, but the food quality is 1000x better, and the people actually appreciate you shopping there. </p>Tim Lee commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e550074b3588332008-01-31T23:53:47Z2008-08-29T21:17:22ZTim Leehttp://www.9xrnet.comI boycott Sony due to their non-customer oriented business decisions. Sony-rootkit? Save-up to buy a PS3? Sony Online Entertainment is...<p>I boycott Sony due to their non-customer oriented business decisions. Sony-rootkit? Save-up to buy a PS3? Sony Online Entertainment is probably the worst division in Sony next to their recording divison.</p>chris riggons commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e5501b518488342008-01-31T22:51:15Z2008-08-30T00:26:26Zchris riggonsI boycott TARGET. They kicked out the Salvation Army bellringers. I like to give to charity anonymously so that's how...<p>I boycott TARGET. They kicked out the Salvation Army bellringers. I like to give to charity anonymously so that's how I do it. Now I just go to Walmart which I have discovered is much cheaper than Target. </p>
<p>Also to those who think they treat their employees bad....maybe you should stop and talk to them. They actually really like working there and think their pay and advancement is fair.</p>mandi commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e5500f96f188342008-01-29T19:30:22Z2008-08-29T00:40:30ZmandiSome of them were refusing to give ortho-tricycline to women who were unmarried, which is something that some women take...<p>Some of them were refusing to give ortho-tricycline to women who were unmarried, which is something that some women take in order to prevent painful cysts.</p>Matt commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e5500f7d7788342008-01-29T18:39:43Z2008-08-30T00:26:02ZMattI don't boycott companies because of abstract values, I avoid doing business with them because they aren't the right places...<p>I don't boycott companies because of abstract values, I avoid doing business with them because they aren't the right places for me to do business with.</p>
<p>I couldn't care less, for example, about the voluntary relationships between Wal-Mart and its employees. I do care that the products Wal-Mart sells are generally crap, the customer service is terrible, the parking lots are always overcrowded, they aren't open at night when I want to shop, the lines to check out are interminably long and move very slowly, etc.</p>
<p>There's quite a list of companies I refuse to do business with. It probably looks like a "boycott" to a consumer statistician, but it's just a personal choice not to have my time, energy, and money wasted on people who haven't earned them.</p>Mike W commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e54ffad2be88332008-01-29T13:33:27Z2008-08-27T12:20:37ZMike WMandi - By birth control are you referring to the "morning after pill"? I believe that is seen by many...<p>Mandi - By birth control are you referring to the "morning after pill"? I believe that is seen by many as an abortive agent not a contraceptive. Pro-Life pharmacists would then have moral grounds to oppose it from their point of view. If they believe that life begins at conception and thus believe that according to our constitution that life has a right to live I can't fault them for logical thinking.</p>Mandi commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e5500ec7c788342008-01-29T12:54:02Z2008-08-27T12:14:40ZMandiOh, and I boycott Target because they support stricter gun control (which probably seems incongruous with the animal testing boycott)...<p>Oh, and I boycott Target because they support stricter gun control (which probably seems incongruous with the animal testing boycott) :)</p>Mandi commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e5500dfd5688342008-01-29T02:01:16Z2008-01-29T02:01:16ZMandiThe fact remains that while Walmart has "every right" to be ruthless, consumers who do not support their agenda (and...<p>The fact remains that while Walmart has "every right" to be ruthless, consumers who do not support their agenda (and every company has one) have every right to choose not to spend their hard earned cash (which ultimately translates into their precious time) with said company. I personally boycott beauty products that are tested on animals. I also boycott Walmart, mainly for their support of pharmacists who refuse to sell birth control on "moral grounds," which makes life difficult for women who live in areas where Walmart has pushed out other pharmacies. While capitalism is its own beast and I don't blame Walmart per se, I use my money to support businesses of which I approve. However, I don't find the need to push my social agenda on anyone else, which I think is a major problem of some social activists.</p>Matt commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e54ff75b4688332008-01-27T21:42:42Z2008-08-27T12:20:22ZMattSarah, If you're convinced that economies of scale reduce the costs of health insurance, why not leave it with the...<p>Sarah,</p>
<p>If you're convinced that economies of scale reduce the costs of health insurance, why not leave it with the taxpayers? What could have a greater scale than the government? Now, I don't want to see us turn into Canada of course (for one thing, where would the Canadians come when they need timely treatment?), but it doesn't make much sense to an employer to pay for someone's health insurance if the value of their labor doesn't cover that cost. If people demand that the employer do so anyway, then fewer unskilled people will be employed at all. The amount of labor needed to run a business is usually not fixed. Many low-skilled jobs can be eliminated by using more machinery, for instance. Just give them a reason and rational employers will do exactly that. Even if some silly, idealistic business owner *wants* to employ people at a loss, the situation would be unsustainable. A more efficient business would eventually come along and win all their customers away with lower prices. So are the laborers better off unemployed?</p>
<p>When did I ever say that foreign workers chose working in a sweatshop over being investment bankers? Do you want to discuss what I said or beat up straw men? I know our cushy American lives make it hard to imagine, but there are things even worse than working in sweatshops. You could farm a small plot of land you don't own (getting nowhere and always at the mercy of the weather and your landlord), you could spend your days picking through a giant pile of garbage, you could just starve to death to name a few. In the world's poorest countries, these alternatives aren't even particularly unusual. Given that environment, it's not surprising that working in a factory owned by a foreign corporation would seem like a good alternative to a lot of people. If it weren't a good alternative, the corporations wouldn't be able to staff these factories without putting a gun to everyone's head. To be clear, is that what you're accusing them of?</p>
<p>On to your 1973 stat. I would point out that you didn't cite a source if I thought this statistic could even get off the ground. First, 1973 seems awfully specific...like cherry picking. Does it hold true in 1972 and 1974? Next, even though adjusting for inflation is usually a more fair comparison than not doing so, it breaks down as enough time passes. The goods people want are different, and so are the jobs available to them. My line of work barely existed, if it did at all, in 1973. Many of the things I spend my own money on were unavailable in 1973 at any price. This statistic doesn't even seem plausible to me. How many people would really want to go back to the world as it was (materially speaking) in 1973?</p>
<p>Do you really believe Walmart is responsible for suburban sprawl (and by extension, the war in Iraq)? The order of events doesn't bear that out. Suburbanization was underway long before Walmart came along to better serve suburbanites' retail needs. In fact, if Walmart is guilty of putting all the towns' other stores out of business (as RP claims), that should mean less consumption of oil because everything is under one roof.</p>
<p>I'm sure Mike W is right, that Walmart isn't as ruthless as its detractors make it out to be. But I'm leaving that aside, because I think the case is strong enough that Walmart has every right to be ruthless.</p>Mike W commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e54ff380ef88332008-01-25T17:41:48Z2008-01-25T17:41:48ZMike WSarah: You said to Matt, "Finally, I feel like I'm hitting the wall here with you: that $2 you save...<p>Sarah:</p>
<p>You said to Matt, "Finally, I feel like I'm hitting the wall here with you: that $2 you save on the Wal-Mart isn't actual savings if you end up paying an unnecessary $4 in taxes to support someone who could have been working and paying taxes himself if he'd gotten proper health care all along. "</p>
<p>I just don't see the point in that argument. It sounds like you are either saying if Walmart didn't exist there would be more people with health insurance or if WalMart offered insurance to more of it's employees there would be less people living off the welfare dole.</p>
<p>I don't have access to any stats but I can only speak from personal experience. My wife worked at WalMart while she was in school before I knew her. She had health, participated in an ESPP with WalMart stock (not much but it went towards our first home down payment). I also know from talking to her that a lot of her colleagues carried insurance. I also know that they offer very low cost prescription drugs to people without insurance in some states now as a pilot program.</p>
<p>Yes someone without insurance who gets a debilitating illness would probably be forced to stop working without any other support means and then they would be forced to collect entitlements and government health support (again without support from family, friends, church, charitable organization, etc). I don't believe we are talking about the majority of people. I would be surprised if you were even talking about as high as 3 employees from every WalMart store in the country. So I find it hard to see a correlation that equals the level of discount WalMart offers, especially when you start factoring that WalMart employees are offered varying levels of health insurance coverage (and they don't even have to be 40 hour a week employees from what I understand to be qualified for some level of benefits).</p>
<p>I agree that historically employers have provided health insurance to their people but that is something that employees can negotiate. If someone needs insurance then they should work that into their hiring package through negotiation or look around for other employment offers. Or use their WalMart pay with frugal living, tax credits and a support network to manage to get an education in a needed career field and then find work in that field and have more bargaining power for your benefits.</p>
<p>You are right though about capitalism not helping out everyone. It helps those who help themselves (and those who are TRULY unable to should receive help from charitable organizations, friends, family, their community, and their state until they can or if they are disabled such that they could never work then that means they get help for their life). Does capitalism mean everyone will prosper? Absolutely not. Everyone should earn what they will bear and what the market will bear. I am not the wealthy few you refer to who trickle down economics help but I live comfortably, working hard on paying down some debt and worked hard at making my career work for me, got the education I required and negotiated hard to be where I am now in the software field. The really neat thing about capitalism is that anyone can do that.</p>Sarah commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e5500799ed88342008-01-25T16:29:40Z2008-08-30T16:33:16ZSarahMike: fair enough; every position has its adherents who haven't really thought it through, and they can definitely be quite...<p>Mike: fair enough; every position has its adherents who haven't really thought it through, and they can definitely be quite annoying!</p>
<p>Matt: it's not an ethical principle, it's an economic principle. The idea is to put the costs on the entity that can most cheaply insure the risk (thus making it most cost-effective), which generally requires scale. I'm guessing you *have* insurance and have been lucky enough not to have a family member be seriously ill recently, or you wouldn't think that family, landlord, or church is usually capable of meeting those costs.</p>
<p>It's a mockery to say that people are "choosing" to work under miserable conditions for miserable pay--as if they totally had the option from birth to come to the United States and be investment bankers, but decided they'd rather work 100 hour weeks without benefits and terrorized by security goons instead.</p>
<p>I don't know if you paid attention to the stats in my first post, but in fact capitalism is not helping out everyone as it goes along. You make on average less money, in real dollars, than you would have doing the same work in 1973. Trickle-down economics is a lie. Late 20th-century capitalism has largely benefited a small class of people who skim the wealth off the top. </p>
<p>Finally, I feel like I'm hitting the wall here with you: that $2 you save on the Wal-Mart isn't actual savings if you end up paying an unnecessary $4 in taxes to support someone who could have been working and paying taxes himself if he'd gotten proper health care all along. It isn't actual savings if your town pays out huge subsidies to attract the corporation or to pick up the costs of infrastructure to maintain their store--that money comes out of your pocket too. It's not savings if we end up spending tens of billions of dollars to defend our access to oil abroad so we can continue our suburban-sprawl lifestyle, and for the people who are dying in that same cause, it's a total loss. </p>
<p>Your bottom line is more than what you see on a single receipt today, and maybe someday you might even come to place some value on the dignity and comfort of your fellow human-beings, too, even if they aren't the super-successful competitors in the marketplace that you became all by yourself and always will be.<br />
</p>Matt commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e55007745388342008-01-25T14:44:42Z2008-08-29T00:38:50ZMattSarah, I do accept your point that this is a discussion about consumer choices, not government intrusion. Fair enough. I...<p>Sarah, I do accept your point that this is a discussion about consumer choices, not government intrusion. Fair enough.</p>
<p>I didn't say the unskilled laborer shouldn't get healthcare from *somewhere*. I just don't see why his employer should be stuck with it. Why not his family? Or his landlord? Or his church? Employer just seems like a random choice. If I hire some neighborhood kid to cut my lawn once a week, should I have to buy him some health insurance? What is the ethical principle?</p>
<p>In fact, maybe it is most fair to have the taxpayers shoulder that burden. Having the unskilled worker make whatever he can in honest work sure beats having him unemployed altogether because his productivity doesn't cover the cost of health insurance.</p>
<p>Now on to the poor foreign workers. I return to my earlier point that as long as there is no slavery, as long as people aren't led to work in the sweatshops at the end of a bayonet, they chose to work for pennies under brutal working conditions because it beat their alternatives, such as farming a plot of land they don't own or worse. In the poorest countries, life is always brutal, but improvement is still improvement. Can there be any doubt that the people of China and India are better off now than they were 20 years ago? Even when those people don't gain as much political power as we'd like them to have, they're still better off because they have more power over where their next meal is coming from.</p>
<p>I don't want corporate executives to care about me, I only want them to care about themselves and their stockholders. The beauty of capitalism as that in so doing, they end up helping their customers too. That's what capitalism is all about: harnessing ever-present human greed to the greater good.</p>
<p>You say I shouldn't be suckered into not looking after my bottom line. So I guess I should shop at the store with the lowest price?</p>becky commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e5500772c188342008-01-25T14:39:15Z2008-08-29T06:43:58ZbeckyWow, what an interesting discussion we have going on here. I must agree with Ben Darfler that I am making...<p>Wow, what an interesting discussion we have going on here. I must agree with Ben Darfler that I am making a stand based on how I choose to spend my dollar or not to spend it. I don't think though that it is my place try to persuade other people to side with me. Others have the exact same choice with how they spend their money. That is one of the wonderful freedoms we have in this great country and I appreciate it for myself as well as for everyone else.</p>
<p>I also boycott other companies that I have heard employ workers/growers at such a low pay wage that those individuals cannot make a good living (usually outside of the U.S.). Yes, making a good living is relative, but I don't think employers should take unfair advantage of situations in order to make a larger profit. I believe in businesses that are sustainable and who want to make sure that their employees are also sustainable. Please see the website www.transfairusa.org to see a listing of companies that offer 'Fair Trade Certified' products. I do believe in this organization's mantra's and if I learn of companies that do not try to support it's team (employees, suppliers, growers, customers, etc.), I will boycott them.</p>
<p>Interestingly enough, Sam's Club is actually one of the companies listed as offering 'Fair Trade Certified' products, but I still won't shop there just because of it's affiliation with Walmart. That's just my opinion.</p>Mike W commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e54ff317b888332008-01-25T12:55:34Z2008-01-25T12:55:34ZMike WThat is a good point Sarah. We seem to be getting a bit derailed here :). I think that whole...<p>That is a good point Sarah. We seem to be getting a bit derailed here :). I think that whole WalMart thing is causing some strife (well duh! I guess that is obvious). I never talked about government coercion but I am a happy shopper at WalMart, you are not and I think that is fine. </p>
<p>I just get a bit frustrated with that tribe/herd mentality that sometimes exists around issues like WalMart, Globalization, Free-Trade, Global Warming (that is whether it is man-made and a threat or whether it is explainable, shown to happen other places, etc). It seems that there are some (you could even say many) who sign on to these causes without really any objective or rational reason why. It's something that their friends stand for or something that their party stands for. That is so frustrating when we were given brains that are capable of rational thought and logic.</p>
<p>I will also say that I could be called a "pro-lifer" or an "anti-choice" person (depending on what label you desire to give me). Just as much as I am frustrated by the activists I mentioned above, I am equally frustrated by those who agree with my position but don't really have the ability to defend their position with rational thoughts or polite and courteous logical arguments but just rely on yelling louder (as happens on both sides of all of these issues far too often).</p>
<p>So this country is pretty cool. We can believe in an issue and we can support it as passionately as we want without fear of a gulag. But we also have access to some great resources through our libraries and the internet (though we need to be careful there :) ) and we should use those resources, think for ourselves objectively and come to conclusions that make sense for us.</p>
<p>Anyway I am just rambling now :)</p>Sarah commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e55006de1b88342008-01-25T04:58:05Z2008-01-25T04:58:05ZSarahI also find it interesting that in a post that is specifically about private individuals making private choices about how...<p>I also find it interesting that in a post that is specifically about private individuals making private choices about how to spend their own money, people are reacting by yelling about government coercion. The people discussing choosing not to spend their money in certain stores were not advocating laws to prevent other people from doing so, but apparently enough people have bought into the corporate script that any criticism of corporate behavior is taken as the advocacy of a socialist regime.</p>Sarah commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e54ff29a5688332008-01-25T04:52:03Z2008-08-29T06:45:01ZSarah"Why should an unskilled laborer get health insurance from his or her employer anyway?" Well, since you seem to think...<p>"Why should an unskilled laborer get health insurance from his or her employer anyway?"</p>
<p>Well, since you seem to think of basic health care as a luxury, I'll skip the appeals to human decency and cut straight to the financial chase: people without health care tend to get sicker, faster. When they have to go to the ER, who do you think ends up paying those bills? When they become too sick to work, who do you think has to support them? In the end, it's the taxpayers. So instead of being able to pay taxes themselves, people without health insurance end up draining our public coffers.</p>
<p>As for the person who mentioned lifting people from other countries out of poverty, it's a nice thought, but being paid pennies under brutal working conditions (often with accompanying destruction of the environment) isn't really being lifted out of poverty. It's the creation of a global serf class, competition with which will end up hurting many many Americans (and indeed already has--look at the Rust Belt). It's a classic "race to the bottom." In many of those countries, workers will never be able to improve themselves because business has such a stranglehold on government that workers end up shut out of the political process altogether.</p>
<p>As for people asking for detailed information on Wal-Mart's abusive practices, fair enough. Here are a couple of links:</p>
<p>WalMart Workers Assail Night Lock-Ins (<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/18/national/18WALM.html?ex=1389762000&en=659ee9a0025b35de&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND)" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/18/national/18WALM.html?ex=1389762000&en=659ee9a0025b35de&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND)</a></p>
<p>Wal-Mart To Add Wage Caps, Part-Timers (<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/02/business/02walmart.html?_r=1&oref=slogin)" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/02/business/02walmart.html?_r=1&oref=slogin)</a> ("Wal-Mart’s top human resources official sent the company’s board a confidential memo stating, with evident concern, that experienced employees were paid considerably more than workers with just one year on the job, while being no more productive. The memo, disclosed by The New York Times in October 2005, also recommended hiring healthier workers and more part-time workers because they were less likely to enroll in Wal-Mart’s health plan.")</p>
<p>We all like to tell ourselves that we are good, productive citizens who could never lose our jobs to any kind of economic erosion--or that we're frugal enough that we could survive such a downturn. It's easy to blame the victims, and makes our own lack of control less scary. But the fact is, the big corporate execs taking $100+M payouts after running companies into multi-billion-dollar losses do not care about you. They do not structure their companies to benefit you or your communities. They keep an eye on their own bottom line--don't be suckered into not looking after yours.</p>Matt commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e55006c92788342008-01-25T03:57:27Z2008-01-25T03:57:27ZMattThe exportation of jobs is irresistable as long as goods can be produced overseas for so much less that it...<p>The exportation of jobs is irresistable as long as goods can be produced overseas for so much less that it covers the costs of doing so (shipping, for instance) and is STILL much cheaper when it reaches American consumers. It's been happening for decades in the auto industry, which has nothing to do with Walmart. I would guess that most of the anti-Walmart crowd has seen Roger and Me. To blame Walmart for this is to shoot the messenger.</p>
<p>Even if Walmart were to blame, there are two sides to that coin. When they market foreign-made goods to American consumers, it also creates foreign jobs. I may be a reactionary in many ways, but I do consider foreigners human beings too (I don't mean to imply you don't), and I believe that helping to lift some of the world's poorest people out of poverty will make the world a more peaceful, better place. Even when their working conditions aren't up to American standards, as long as they're not literally slaves, they took the job because it was their best alternative.</p>
<p>When Walmart starts competing with other local retailers, keep in mind that these other retailers were often monopolies before Walmart came along. Typically these are small towns with one hardware store, one grocery store, one fabric store, one toy store, etc. They don't compete with each other, they just sell different things. Then Walmart comes along with a much more efficient way: put it all under one roof and build a huge parking lot around it. Stay open 24/7, and charge lower prices for comparable foreign-made goods. It may be ugly, but it's still no wonder people abandon the old stores. Even if prices rise a little after the other stores are gone, I think the consumers are still better off than before.</p>
<p>It's true that Walmart doesn't provide health insurance for all their employees, but that doesn't mean that many of their employees have no health insurance. Teenagers are covered by their parents' plans, married people are covered by their spouses' plans, and semi-retired older people are covered by Medicare. That still doesn't quite cover everyone, but why should an unskilled laborer get health insurance from his or her employer anyway? Health insurance is a pretty lavish benefit used to attract and retain employees who are in high demand. If you can attract and retain someone for nothing more than $7/hour, why would you add this huge cost? If the taxpayers then step in and assume that burden, that's their folly.</p>
<p>You say Walmart "forces" people to work part-time. Are there guns involved? I think that as a condition to employment, employers should get to say how much people can work for them. To say otherwise would involve government intrusion. That's what real force looks like.</p>
<p>My overall point is that a healthy bottom line isn't evidence of wrongdoing. In fact, it's almost always evidence that a company is providing a good or service that people want, and doing it better than competitors. Profit is not a dirty word.</p>Julie Bestry commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e54ff27e8f88332008-01-25T03:30:25Z2008-01-25T03:30:26ZJulie Bestryhttp://www.juliebestry.comBeastlike, I picked Snopes.com as my example because it's probably the best known well-researched myth-busting site on the web, but...<p>Beastlike, I picked Snopes.com as my example because it's probably the best known well-researched myth-busting site on the web, but you could certainly have also done as I suggested as an alternative and Google for similar results. We could certainly debate whether Snopes.com being quoted by the likes of CNN, ABC News and other mainstream news sources as a source of valid information lends further credence, but for my needs (professional and personal) it yields exemplary research. If you know of a more highly esteemed hoax/myth-busting site, please share it with us!</p>
<p>Of course, the best such site would be one belonging to the source, since all the hoax emails claimed Hilfiger said the damning remark on "Oprah" and the rumor went on to say that Oprah kicked him off the show. Ms. Winfrey and her staff have debunked it themselves both on the show and on the show's site at:<br />
<a href="http://www.oprah.com/tows/pastshows/tows_1999/tows_past_19990111.jhtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.oprah.com/tows/pastshows/tows_1999/tows_past_19990111.jhtml</a></p>
<p>I used to work in the television industry (I've long since started my own company), and since the rumor originally started about Hilfiger saying these alleged things on "Oprah" (and, as noted, the identical quotes and letters have been sent about Liz Claiborne, with only the name and gender of pronouns changes), I'd called my King World representatives (they're the ones who syndicate Oprah). They connected me with one of the segment producers on the show, who verified that it was a fast-moving urban legend but had no merit, as by the time time rumor was well-known, Hilfiger hadn't even ever been on her show. </p>
<p>However, you don't know me, and you don't know the segment producer, and you'd have no reason to believe my debunking, whereas most people know and use Snopes because it has a good reputation (as do Barbara and David Mikkelson, who run the site) for presenting carefully researched materials. Certainly the actual "Oprah" site, debunking a myth about something that happened on the show, is even more reputable, but Snopes.com provides a more detailed recounting of the factual errors. (Oprah did a great job at rolling her eyes when she debunked it on air!)</p>
<p>Of course, you'd find the same general debunking of this story at:<br />
<a href="http://www.hoax-slayer.com/tommy-hilfiger-rumour.htmlorhttp://www.emailhoaxesurbanlegends.com/tommyhilfigerboycott" rel="nofollow">http://www.hoax-slayer.com/tommy-hilfiger-rumour.htmlorhttp://www.emailhoaxesurbanlegends.com/tommyhilfigerboycott</a> or, indeed, almost any other hoax-busting site, but again, I recommended Snopes.com as one option (doing your own research being the other) because of the extent of their research. It certainly provided a logical starting point. </p>
<p>Bringing this back to the subject, I boycott all spreading of rumors by checking at least three independent resources. We all have issues that resonate with us -- for someone up-topic, it was animal testing, for others, it's discrimination. But let's all base our spending and investing decisions on facts and not rumors, eh?</p>Mike W commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e54ff272b088332008-01-25T02:56:09Z2008-01-25T02:56:09ZMike WThe funny thing I was thinking after posting the above comments. The question was asking about your values and beliefs....<p>The funny thing I was thinking after posting the above comments. The question was asking about your values and beliefs. A lot of folks said WalMart and said some of the quick hit statements you hear from people about some of the things they are rumored/accused to do but didn't really explain objective, rational, reasoned example of their value and the confirmed behavior that goes against the value. Share that with us so folks can make informed decisions as you have.</p>Mike W commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e55006a78788342008-01-25T02:41:06Z2008-01-25T02:41:06ZMike WMonkeyMonk - I haven't seen the documentary. I'll have to look for it. I am curious to know who created...<p>MonkeyMonk -</p>
<p>I haven't seen the documentary. I'll have to look for it. I am curious to know who created it and why but hey it's a documentary so it must be true. I'll watch it and research the claims it makes. Fair warning though, I have seen other documentaries before that were supposed to change my mind only to find that objective research undid the emotional goosebumpy "feely" effect of the documentary.</p>Mike W commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e54ff26c2b88332008-01-25T02:38:04Z2008-01-25T02:38:04ZMike WI guess being Anti-WalMart is the cool thing to do nowadays. Kind of like those anti-globalization warriors.. RP - My...<p>I guess being Anti-WalMart is the cool thing to do nowadays. Kind of like those anti-globalization warriors..</p>
<p>RP - My wife worked at Walmart before we met when she was starting out. She enjoyed it, she received decent benefits, got some stock through an ESPP, and made good money for someone who did not yet have a degree and was putting herself through school. She isn't scarred for life, she was never locked in and she was treated fine.</p>
<p>I am also on a Fire Department, a volunteer fire department for a small town that is in a community next to a town that has a WalMart. We have received donations through WalMart to buy items that we otherwise would have to pass on to our taxpayers in the form of increased property taxes (or be forced to go without). Many local fire departments, civic organizations and others have also received generous gifts from WalMart.</p>
<p>When the WalMart needed to go in, they worked with the planning board to make needed infrastructure improvements to the area to support their arrival but that also helped spawn a small commercial center right across the street from them with smaller regionally owned businesses and one small independent business. </p>
<p>New jobs for wage workers came to the area that the small businesses in the area could not have placed into service.</p>
<p>I am not a WalMart employee, stockholder, etc and have nothing to gain from these comments but I consider myself a rational person and I have been trying to look at this from all angles. I just can't find any justification to believe that WalMart is evil.</p>
<p>@BrianK -</p>
<p>Please explain how we are all subsidizing the prices that WalMart offers as you explain? Please cite accurate sources with enough information for me to google (or is that too large of a search engine for me to mention? Should I mention a smaller, more independent, search engine?) and I will look at the actual data objectively as I am sure you have done.... </p>BrianK commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e54ff2659988332008-01-25T02:20:34Z2008-01-25T02:20:34ZBrianKAnyone who thinks that the "savings" at WalMart aren't passed on to you by various externalities is delusional. Whether through...<p>Anyone who thinks that the "savings" at WalMart aren't passed on to you by various externalities is delusional. Whether through increased Medicaid and Medicare spending, environmental cleanup from their suppliers, etc... we all subsidize your WalMart discounts.</p>
<p>Aside from WalMart, I also refuse to purchase any products from manufacturers that test on animals (like Proctor & Gamble, Colgate Palmolive, Unilever, etc.). I stopped buying gas from Shell about 12 years ago, while they were supporting the military dictatorship in Nigeria. I stopped shopping at AutoZone because of their continuing support of Rush Limbaugh and Michael Savage.</p>
<p>I never assume that my action actually has a measurable impact on the bottom line of the company, but I do always send a polite message letting them know why I will not purchase their product. I seldom get even a canned response, which goes to show how much they value consumer opinion.</p>
<p>However, I know I do affect what the people around me buy by the example I set. I work at a university and routinely meet reps from many of these companies, and I am always honest with them. I realize their recruiters have no power to change corporate policy, so I am always very polite with them. On the other hand, I refused to accept any samples from a P&G rep, who seemed surprised that I was well-versed in her company's history of (and excuses for) animal testing. I don't think I made her feel bad, but I do think that I made her think.</p>Suze commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e54ff2644188332008-01-25T02:17:15Z2008-08-27T12:20:05ZSuzeI'm pretty shallow with my shopping habits. If it has decent prices, the store is clean and service good, and...<p>I'm pretty shallow with my shopping habits. If it has decent prices, the store is clean and service good, and it's convenient to my home, I'll shop there.</p>MonkeyMonk commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e54ff22f3988332008-01-25T00:07:16Z2008-01-25T00:07:16ZMonkeyMonkAnyone who's defending Wal-Mart here needs to see the documentary "Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Prices." If you've already...<p>Anyone who's defending Wal-Mart here needs to see the documentary "Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Prices." If you've already seen it and are still defending Wal-Mart then there's no hope for you. :)</p>RP commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e54ff21cb188332008-01-24T23:32:36Z2008-01-24T23:32:36ZRPWhen Wal-Mart forces companies to move factories out the U.S., putting hundreds (if not thousands) of employees out of work,...<p>When Wal-Mart forces companies to move factories out the U.S., putting hundreds (if not thousands) of employees out of work, I consider that to be bad for communities. When Wal-Mart moves in to a community, sells items at a loss to forces smaller companies out of business, then raises prices back up when the competition is gone, I consider that to be bad for business. When Wal-Mart forces employees to work part-time so they don't have to pay full benefits (forcing taxpayers to shoulder the burden), I consider that to be bad for communities. Really, there are dozens and dozens of examples. I don't consider it to be "good business". </p>
<p>Costco treats employees and suppliers well, and the whole system works great. </p>
<p>And I apologize for the "open mind" comment. That was uncalled for. There is a huge price to pay (for all of us) for Wal-Mart's legendary low prices, and I really wish people would look beyond the bottom line - that's the point I was trying to make.</p>Matt commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e54ff20cf688332008-01-24T23:04:12Z2008-08-28T06:41:08ZMattRP, what better reason is there for putting the consumer first than the bottom line? That's how it's supposed to...<p>RP, what better reason is there for putting the consumer first than the bottom line? That's how it's supposed to work. By putting the consumer first (and to clarify, by first, I mean ahead of employees and suppliers) Walmart makes more money.</p>
<p>Do you have any examples of how Walmart treats its customers badly? I mean, I know the service is pretty basic. But I don't expect much when I'm paying so little. It's not a Mercedes dealership.</p>
<p>Whose lives has Walmart destroyed? The owners' of other retail businesses? Domestic suppliers? Both had it coming. They were simply out-competed, and the consumer benefited. Even for them, it's a bit over the top to say their lives were destroyed. They just got a dose of reality.</p>
<p>As for Costco, yes, they do pay their employees more and they still manage to get by. But like with any expense a business has, it's really the customers who pay it. So what do the customers get for paying that extra cost? Possibly better service (Costco is more of an upmarket store), but my guess is that mostly the customers get to feel better about themselves, just as some people will pay a lot more for local organic produce mainly to feel better about themselves. I think they are mistaken to feel that way.</p>
<p>What do you mean by how Walmart and Costco treat their communities? These are retailers, not fire departments or churches. So are you alleging Walmart doesn't pay its taxes? If only I had an open mind, maybe I could understand.</p>Emma commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e54ff2073488332008-01-24T22:54:33Z2008-08-30T12:00:45ZEmmahttp://moneytalk.wordpress.comSam .. that's funny. Although I wouldn't consider CNN conservative by any means. My army friend refers to it as...<p>Sam .. that's funny. Although I wouldn't consider CNN conservative by any means. My army friend refers to it as the Clinton News Network. :)</p>
<p>I definitely don't support businesses who my values don't align with. The main one is credit card companies. Their practices are far worse than any of the others listed, but because they've become so engrained in our culture, people seem to overlook them.</p>RP commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e55006130388342008-01-24T22:04:49Z2008-08-30T03:07:28ZRPMatt, you said "In every way it can, Walmart puts the consumer first." You're kidding, right? Wal-mart only cares about...<p>Matt, you said "In every way it can, Walmart puts the consumer first." You're kidding, right? Wal-mart only cares about customers as long as they contribute the bottom line (just like almost every other business). If Wal-Mart made money while destroying live in the U.S., they would. Oh wait, they already do that!</p>
<p>To compare two big box retailers, look at the way Wal-Mart treats employees, customers and communities and the way Costco treats employees, customers and communities. Look at it with an open mind, and maybe you'll understand.</p>Matt commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e54ff1e46888332008-01-24T21:58:45Z2008-01-24T21:58:45ZMattWalmart is simply paying its employees what they're worth. If they were worth any more, they'd work somewhere else. If...<p>Walmart is simply paying its employees what they're worth. If they were worth any more, they'd work somewhere else. If you try to set up a business that pays people more than they're worth, you simply have a lottery where the jobs go to the lucky. It's great for the people inside looking out, and unemployment for the people outside looking in. That's essentially what happens when labor unions get involved. How is it fair to turn away someone who is willing to do the same work for less, just because he didn't happen to get there sooner?</p>
<p>In every way it can, Walmart puts the consumer first. All those local, mom-and-pop stores everyone is so nostalgic about? I, for one, am glad they're being replaced by Walmart. Walmart means better selection, better hours, and better prices. I would never go back to the time stores would actually close at night.</p>Mike W commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e54ff1d38c88332008-01-24T21:31:53Z2008-08-27T12:14:13ZMike WI think Sarah must live in an Urban setting. The nearest grocery store to my house is 15 miles. I...<p>I think Sarah must live in an Urban setting. The nearest grocery store to my house is 15 miles. I live in an environment with rather harsh winters. The nearest "green grocer" is about 35 miles and the nearest farmer's market is about 45 miles. There is a small farm stand in my town which has some produce in the summer and early fall but not nearly enough of a variety.</p>Mainstreet8 commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e54ff1c6ed88332008-01-24T21:13:51Z2008-01-24T21:13:51ZMainstreet8Wages at Walmart are based on supply and demand in an open marketplace. Unions are an anachronism that distort the...<p>Wages at Walmart are based on supply and demand in an open marketplace. Unions are an anachronism that distort the free market by attempting to change the supply and demand for workers. </p>
<p>Could Walmart pay more? Absolutely. Should the law compel them to pay more, absolutely not. Should you give more to Charity, absolutely. Should the law compel you to do so, a thousand times no. Should the law force you to go to a certain gas station? Should the law compel your boss to pay you more money? No. If you want more money than you may need to change jobs, get better training, get another degree, get more experience, or move to a new location. Your current employer may already be paying you more than you are really worth in the same way that you may being paying too much for any of a hundred services you pay for every day. </p>
<p>If you really want to change Walmart than you need to buy shares of Walmart. Walmart will change when its owners, AKA Shareholders, demand that change. Right now those owners are interested in boring things like ROI and ROE and Inventory Turnover. They are anti-union because unions have a negative impact on all of these metrics.</p>ED commented on 'Do You Boycott Companies that Don't Line Up with Your Values?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451bcbd69e200e55010a85d88342008-01-24T19:41:03Z2008-01-30T02:17:54ZEDI boycott stores that do not allow the Salvation Army to set up their kettles and I also boycott Abercrombie...<p>I boycott stores that do not allow the Salvation Army to set up their kettles and I also boycott Abercrombie and Fitch because of their advetising practices.</p>