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« Your Votes and Opinions Needed | Main | A Lesson on the Power of Compounding »

March 18, 2008

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My grade for Wal-Mart: D-

Pros:
- Sorta cheap

Cons:
- Exceptionally poor service
- Low quality products
- Dirty stores
- The customer base is unpleasant to be around, for the most part (kids screaming, rude shoppers running over you, people cutting in line, etc. are common occurances)
- Extremely long checkout lines

Bonus Cons:
- Treat their employees very badly (especially the long-tenured - read: more expensive - employees)
- Screw over their vendors with long (Net 90+) payment terms and rip-off one way agreements
- Run small companies out of business and commodotize entire industries.

Walmart is awesome for their low prices. We save so much on groceries! Not to mention that you have a much larger selection of items. We live 1 minute from a Food World (Bruno's) and 3 minutes from a Walmart. I drive the extra 2 minutes because Walmart's cereal, for example, costs HALF of the same stuff at Food World.

They intentionally make you stand in line that long. I heard that they have figured out how long of a wait-time the average person is willing to tolerate and that's what they aim at. It frees up people to work in the rest of the store and saves them money on wages, which is always the largest expense for any company.

They are almost finished building a Target that is 1 minute from my house as well...and I'll probably still go to Walmart when I am given the option because I think their prices are lower. Granted, if my wife is going along, she will always choose Target for whatever reason.

By the way, good idea for a blog post though, I'd be interested to see the discussions it brings up.

Hint: Don't buy meat at Walmart Superstores. I have found on several occasions while working there that there is a strange goo-like substance inside (Gross!). Also no matter how tempting the price, I wouldn't buy produce or anything that is meant to be "fresh" because typically to get the best price it has been shipped from far away. By the time it gets to your house it will only take a few days before it goes bad.

Trent, I have to contest your point about Walmart mistreating their employees. Yes, it may be true, but you have to realize that it's not slave labor...no one is forcing them to work there. If they don't like the way they are treated or the money they are making, there are plenty of other jobs around in that industry. Additionally, I think the majority opinion is that "Even a miserable job is better than no job."

Also, if I were ever a potential vendor for Walmart, I would probably still be happy to have an outrageous contract with them rather than not have my product in their stores at all and miss out on the huge volume and publicity produced as a result. Or maybe I'm wrong about that...I'm not really a business person.

Trent D.

It's funny you say that they treat thier employees poorly. I can't recall the name of the organization that advocated against walmart, but I read a newspaper article that said this organization stiffed it's employees out of benefits way more than walmart.

Also, about running small businesses out, the plans for the local walmart here had the surrounding small businesses actually wanting a walmart near them for the purposes of more shopping traffic.

Rob - FMF was just mentioning about the employees because he knew that he would get a lot of comments about it - not that he agreed with it.

I love walmart for their prices. I do tend to stay away from their meat but the produce is fine. Everything else (canned goods, bread, pet supplies, cleaning supplies, toiletries, medicine) I haven't found cheaper anywhere. I avoid the weekends and get in an out on weekday evenings pretty quick.

@Ryan S.,

Your post didn't have any specific facts in it - just a few stories you've heard. Care to provide any backup?

I'm not saying you're lying, but Wal-mart's anti-competitive practices and mistreatment of their employees are well-documented - the stories you're telling probably aren't well known, so some links would be useful.

Also, small businesses who WANT a low-cost competitor like Wal-Mart to come to their area to explains part of the reason they're going out of business - Morons in charge!

@Rob:

You're right - nobody's forcing them to work there. But let me give you an example from the real world - my mother in law.

She's worked at Wal-Mart for more than 12 years. She's maxed out (in terms of hourly salary) for her position (cashier), making about $12.00 an hour. They can hire a new person at around $6.50 to do the same job in her area.

Her store has been working to constructively discharge her (create an untenable environment so you're forced to quit) for the last two years by denying paid time off, cutting her hours (despite her seniority), forcing her to change her availability, and making her work odd hours.

The reason? They'd rather save the $5.50 an hour and add it back to the bottom line, rather than retain a loyal and hardworking, experienced employee.

Now here's the issue - if she quits, she would have to start, most likely, at the bottom or middle of the pay scale somewhere else. So suddenly her $12.00 an hour turns into $7-$8.00 an hour for the next five or ten years as she tries to work back up the ladder. The family can't take that kind of pay cut, so she's stuck.

That's the reality for a lot of long-tenured Wal-Mart employees.

http://hamptonroads.com/2008/03/walmarts-giving-southern-shopping-center-businesses-reason-smile

@Trent D.

I understand that it's close to home with your Mom-in-law, but here's how I'd see it. From a business point of view, is your M-I-L worth $5.50 more per hour than a new employee? I don't doubt she's a better cashier than a newbie (we've all had the newbies and they take FOREVER to check us out), but for Walmart (or any biz), it's a business decision that comes down to "How much more is she worth to the bottom line?".

As for loyalty, if Target opened up next door, and offered your M-I-L $5.50 more per hour to work there, would she jump? Dunno in your specific case, but most employees would follow the money - just as most businesses will do.

I work in I.T. and have constant pressure from new college grads who are happy for a job at half of what I'm making - it's a constant battle to make sure I bring something to the table to offset my cost disadvantage.

I wish people would stop treating cashier and other unskilled JOBS as if they were CAREERS. Of course the employees are going to top out the pay scale after a few years, the job isnt worth any more than what they are paying.

Somehow the comments here seem to have switched from shopping experience to working at/with Walmart.

Back to the subject at hand - FMF, I think a number of the things you noted relate specifically to the WalMart store where you shop. For example, the new (less than 2 yrs. old) WalMart by me has self-checkout lanes and as a relatively new store, the displays, etc. all look, well, new.

However, the overall shopping experience at Walmart I find to be generally on par with K-Mart, albeit maybe a litter cleaner - cheap prices but certain departments feature off-brand items that might not meet your quality expectations. And, as a store that tries to satisfy all your needs, I find that I often need to go to another store or a specialty store to get what I really wanted.

I think another commenter referenced Target. I find that Target is a step up in terms of the quality of the items being sold and the overall experience in their stores (again, understanding that the latter point probably varies slightly from one store to another).

@ Justin: You obviously didn't comprehend what you just read. The complaint isn't that she topped out the pay scale, the complaint is that because she topped out on the pay scale, they're trying to make her quit.

Your elitist comment also ignores the fact that quite a few people don't have the skills or education necessary to have a traditional career, and ARE affected by the issues I described while working the "jobs" you turn up your nose at.

@ Dave M:

I certainly understand the business side of things. I see employment as a two-way value proposition: the employee must provide value to the employer, and vice versa.

When someone has dedicated 12 years of their life to loyally serving an employer, they deserve better than to be pushed out because they're making too much money, especially when the employer was the one who controlled that pay rate in the first place.

If Target opened next door and offered her the same amount of money, or nearly as much, I'm confident she'd jump. Two years ago she wouldn't have, but at that time, Wal-Mart hadn't betrayed her trust by attempting to make her quit and taking away many of the privileges she'd earned through her first ten years of service.

Now, Wal-Mart has shaken her trust in the company (after all, they could terminate her at any time, and apparently they want to see her gone), so I wouldn't have a problem with her leaving.

An employment at will relationship is just that - either party can terminate it at any time - but just because something is "legal" doesn't make it ethical, and I have a problem with the ethics of Wal-Mart in this situation.

It is not elitist that more qualified workers who accomplish more important tasks are paid more. . .

Your arguments are like me demanding that rocket finance generate the same level of income as FMF. It won't happen until I generate the same level of traffic and quality content.

It is a tough situation, but why should your MIL be compensated for more than her job is worth?

BTW, our Walmart is quite clean and always has more than enough people to run the check-out. I enjoy shopping there.

Maybe our Walmart has better management. . . but they should not make any more than a dirty, poorly run store, though, right, Trent?

The biggest issue I have with Wal-Mart is their shabby treatment of the local environment. We have two Wal-Marts. Each were built in the 1980s and were the size of a typical Wal-Mart from that era. Since then, they closed the two original stores and built super stores down the road. One of the original stores is still empty, and it happens to be the one that caused the city to amend their long term zoning plan to let them build in the first place. Now the area is full of big box stores with insufficient infrastructure to deal with the traffic and the water runoff from all that concrete. And of course, the reason Wal-Mart moved was they found a location next to a large junction of a two 4-lane highways, claiming they "needed" better access and parking.

I don't give people a hard time for shopping at Wal-Mart. It's none of my business where or how people choose to spend their money. However, it is my opinion there are costs associated with Wal-Mart and similar stores that go beyond what I pay at the check out. Urban (or suburban) blight is one of them. The only time I'll shop at Wal-Mart is if I'm on the road, need something fast and know I'm most likely to get it at Wal-Mart. This means I spend a few bucks there (literally) every couple of years.

Trent --

"When someone has dedicated 12 years of their life to loyally serving an employer, they deserve better than to be pushed out because they're making too much money, especially when the employer was the one who controlled that pay rate in the first place."

I know you know this, but I thought it was worth it to point out that this happens at all levels of the payscale. I know several executives at various companies who have been forced to retire/quit after a long, dedicated career with a company.

lol... FMF, you shoulda known this post wasn't going to stay on topic for long. Well, I know you did know, but anyway. I must say this is entertaining at least ;-)

As for my shopping... well I consider myself a "captive" of Wal-Mart (I'm sure that says enough about what I think about them), mostly because of their proximity to where I live. They are 10 min closer to me than Target is. So if I don't have the time to go all the way out to the Target (which is pretty often), I end up shopping at Wal-Mart... and I employ some of the techniques that you described. I try to shop at certain times/days so that I can be in and out with minimal hassle. Just my opinion :-)

"@ Justin: You obviously didn't comprehend what you just read. The complaint isn't that she topped out the pay scale, the complaint is that because she topped out on the pay scale, they're trying to make her quit.

Your elitist comment also ignores the fact that quite a few people don't have the skills or education necessary to have a traditional career, and ARE affected by the issues I described while working the "jobs" you turn up your nose at."

Trent, I just dont believe that they actually try to "force" people to quit after they become "too costly". I know a few people who have worked at a Walmart for many years now and they have no gripes about their employer. I think the people who usually complain about walmart are the ones who start thinking they should be treated better than other cashiers simply because they worked for X number of years and think they deserve to be treated differently than everyone else. Ask most cashiers/waitresses/unskilled labor at other businesses how easy it is to ask for time off, or get the hours or schedule they asked for. Its not easy or fair most of the time. My point is...if you want all the perks and freedoms of a career or a better job, use your time at walmart as a stepping stone to a job that better fits your needs. Either that, or accept the job for what it is.

I don't shop at Walmart, for numerous reasons. Almost every Walmart I have gone to has been dirty, the prices aren't necessarily cheaper than their competitors, cheaply made products, customer-service is at or below par, plus all their business ethics.

In the town I just moved out of they built a super Walmart behind the old Walmart and it took me forever to find anything and I had to go all over just to get a few items. They advertised their expanded selection, but it was just more of the same stuff they had in old store. I only went there for work or if I really needed something that I couldn't get elsewhere (which was pretty rare). I now live in a metro area where I couldn't even tell you where a Walmart is?

I don't get after people for shopping at Walmart, some really love it and that's their choice. Plus, I understand that some people struggle to make ends meet, so they need to shop at Walmart.

I hate to go to the local Wal-Marts (we have two in town and one each in the neighboring towns, 20-30 miles apart). Aside from the other comments it's mainly because of the rudeness of the customers (hanging out and visiting and blocking the aisles), and the employees aren't any better. Not much customer service unless you're a personal friend. Treating you like your a blight on their existence with no "thank you"s or "you're welcome"s, just hurry up and get out of my hair. Anyway, to go in for just two items takes you over the entire store and I swear they purposely move items to different sections. I don't buy meat there either and have heard several complaints from people who have over the poor quality.

We used to have a great K-Mart, but that has been steadily going downhill for sometime. Things not in stock, stock in the middle of the aisle that is supposed to be put up during off hours, only 1 or 2 cashiers at a time during the busiest times. And I'd still rather go there than Wal-Mart. It's in a great location and would have a large customer base if it was managed and supported by the larger corp better.

"Now here's the issue - if she quits, she would have to start, most likely, at the bottom or middle of the pay scale somewhere else. So suddenly her $12.00 an hour turns into $7-$8.00 an hour for the next five or ten years as she tries to work back up the ladder. The family can't take that kind of pay cut, so she's stuck.

That's the reality for a lot of long-tenured Wal-Mart employees."

Their reality is that WalMart is willing to pay them 50% more than they can make anywhere else? That's a pretty big perk.

I make about 50% more than I would make as a teacher, but my company unfairly denies me summer vacation, winter break, and office hours that end at 3:30 PM. They're clearly exploiting me.

"Now, Wal-Mart has shaken her trust in the company (after all, they could terminate her at any time, and apparently they want to see her gone)"

Also, this is clearly illogical. If they could terminate her at any time, and they really wanted to see her gone, they would have terminated her. So either they can't just terminate her at any time or they don't really want to see her gone.

Wal-marts are kind of homogeneous, but I think there are many retail chains whose individual stores vary tremendously in quality and service. I've definitely been to very well-run Targets and very poorly run Targets. Same with Best Buy, Costco, etc.

In fact, the biggest disparities occur at the smallest retail stores, since a few salespeople make all the difference. The Ann Taylor Loft in SoHo is just phenomenal because its staff is so fun (and I know they're probably faking it so you'll buy stuff, but if so they fake it so well I can't tell the difference). The Ann Taylor Loft in Battery Park is practically dead.

So this series is a very interesting idea, but how helpful is it to a wide group of readers from all over the country (and world)?

I give Walmart a D.

If I visit during peak hours, there are eight checkout lanes open, and three customers waiting in each one. If I visit during "off hours" (after, say, 10 p.m.), there is one lane open with six customers waiting on it.

Their employees are allowed to be sloppy and poorly groomed. It seems employees are allowed to wear whatever they please as long as they wear a blue Walmart vest over the top. I've seen ragged clothing, and shirts with offensive and sexist messages. Not all employees are unkempt, but the store does not set a high standard.

The in-aisle customer service is horrible. If I have a question about a product or don't know where to find something, it typically takes 10 minutes of wandering around the store before I see an employee. Usually this person has to call for another associate. I visited the garden center at the peak of summer, on two different occasions, and each time wandered in the department for half an hour and saw not a single employee.

Their prices are lower than any other store, in most cases. Nothing else attracts me to the place.

I've noticed at a couple of Wal-Mart stores that they put all their cashiers on the same shift. So every cashier gets off at, say, 3 PM. They all close down their registers at 2:50 to avoid the OT gestapo, and the new guys don't come on until 3:01 for the same reason. So if you show up at the wrong time, you're waiting at least 10-15 minutes to check out. Horrible. Since all the Wal-Mart scheduling is supposedly done out of corporate in Arkansas, I'm guessing they do this in all their stores. Hasn't anyone ever heard of staggered schedules?

I like Wal-Mart for basic commodity items because they're cheap, but I don't buy fresh food like meat, produce, or bread there. The quality of those goods is usually pretty lousy.

Overall score for the shopping experience and value received: C
Overall opinion of the company: D+

I Love all the comments about WalMart. Personally, I'd give WalMart an F. WalMart fully invests people after seven years. I, along with many friends were fired after five. No warning or anything, just a DON'T COME BACK. When making 6.00, WalMart makes an employee feel welcome. When making 10.00 or more, WalMart, what's the littlest thing we can fire you for.
Last comment- I wish people would stop treating cashier and other unskilled JOBS as if they were CAREERS.- THERE'S A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE NOT AS TALENTED AS YOU ARE, SO KEEP YOUR COMMENTS TO YOURSELF.

One problem that sticks in my craw the most is that the local stores will not honor their website prices! Most other stores I have delt with will do so. I was in the market for a couple on new desktop computers and found the same exact ones on their site for 548.00 yet in the store they were 598.00. They said they won't sell them for the site price but I could order them online at the lower price and have them shipped to the store for no charge. Somehow this did not make good business sense to me and their "Don't give a damn attitude" simply cost them my business, I went elsewhere. Sometimes lower prices simply don't add up.

Wal-Mart employees at our local store are less competant, not well versed about products they carry or how to provide normal customer service. That said, competitors such as Target, and other discount dept stores aren't much better. The only store consistently worse is K-Mart. We try to limit our consumer spending to necessities, and comparison shop. Limit impulse buying. If you need an item, and that item is for sale at multiple places/stores, why not buy it at the cheapest price. If you dont spend wisely, it doesnt' matter where you shop.

I've lived in North America for a decade now and have yet to enter a Walmart (or a Target for that matter) ... people sometimes find that funny, but given the above comments I won't be going out of my way to go to one any time soon.

In my state, anyone who *suspects* child abuse or neglect is *required* to report it. I always like to say that anyone who has ever been to a Wal-Mart in this state has violated this law. 'Nuff said.

I try to shop at Target and regional groceries.

guinness416,

Just out of curiousity, where do you shop? And how?

I've noticed that the condition of stores varies wildly from one location to another. In upscale areas, the stores are cleaner, brighter, and better maintained. In older, lower income areas they are often in worse condition. I've never really understood why this is, as I would expect a major corporation like Wal-Mart to have uniform standards across stores.

THE POST - A
THE STORE, WALMART - F
THE AMOUNT OF COMMENTS - PRICELESS

Hi J in FL, it's about opportunity rather than any particular objection to Walmart - I've never had a car and have always lived in big cities. We shop locally, but have had Costco memberships in the past. I couldn't even tell you where my nearest Walmart is. My coworkers find this pretty funny.

I stopped shopping at WalMart after seeing their presence destroy our Main Street in a town of 25,000 people. We had a bustling Main Street corridor full of small and locally owned shops for decades. Then WalmArt parked their ugly butt at the fringe of town, with three additional WalMart Supercenters all within a 25 minute drive from town already in existence. That hurt local shop owners real bad. Main street is now but a shadow of its former self. To add insult to injury, when a REGIONAL/LOCAL but well loved grocery store set up shop on the other edge of town, Walmart closed their existing facitilty and opened a Supercenter to sell groceries right across the street from this local/regional store. There had been a grocery store in the plaza where the old WalMart was, and when WalMart moved, the traffic moved with it, forcing the one grocery store out of business and leaving but a barren plaza filled with empty shop fronts (JC Penney and Fashion Bug and Hallmark were all victims here). Thankfully the grocery store WalMart sought to compete against across town is doing well because, like I said, it is much loved and a supporter of local farms. Seeing Walmart fart on my local economy made me determine never to step foot in one again.

I patronize local stores whenever I can. Relationships are worth a lot more than saving a few bucks for lead-laden Chinese products!!!!

CyanSquirrel: I know where you're coming from, but Wal-Mart didn't drive those businesses under. The blood is on the hands of the consumers that decided to shop at Wal-Mart instead of the local businesses.

fivecentnickel:

I agree with you on this. Everyone blames Walmart for driving the local businesses out of business. But it was actually CyanSquirrel's neighbors and community by choosing to no longer shop at those businesses.

I realize that everyone has a choice. My hometown area is in the Rust Belt, with agriculture and manufacturing being pretty much the sole sources of employment. Manufacturing jobs fled overseas at the time Walmart was setting up shop, so who wouldn't want to save a dime when the economy is collapsing? However, had WalMart not come into town dangling cheap crap for cents of the dollar, I don't think Main Street, and our community, would have suffered so much. Quality, local artisans were providing what the community needed just fine before WalMart came. It's almost "chicken or the egg" with WalMart and it's aftermath. Heh...

Do any of you consider WalMart to be predatory? I have to travel a good 20 minutes outside the Beltway (where I currently live) to find a WalMart. This, in a very prosperous area. Yet back home where the economy is depressed, I can find 4 of them within a 15 minute drive. Makes me wonder if they don't pick teetering economies on purpose to grab up market share.

I have no moral objection to Wal-Mart. None whatsoever. They do undertake questionable practices, yes, but it is a person's choice to shop wherever they want to.

I just don't like the lack of service and the overall madness of the Wal-Mart. The one in my town is clean enough, and everything is well-kempt. It's just a madhouse. So many people at all times of the day and night.

I'll go to the local Buehler's grocery store, even though it's also a nightmare a lot of the time.

I pretty much wont shop at Walmart anymore. I hate the experience and (at least locally) the stores are dirty and unorganized. They've got cheap prices but I often find the quality so poor that you truly are getting what you pay for.

I love Target though.

"The blood is on the hands of the consumers that decided to shop at Wal-Mart instead of the local businesses."

I agree. It's always how apparent this is when I visit my in-laws in SW Virginia. They complain about Wal-Mart destroying small town business, but do ALL there shopping at it. The most ironic example of this is the last time I went down there for Fourth of July, where all the locals loaded up on flags and other red, white and blue stuff to show their patriotism--all purchased at Wal-Mart and made in foreign countries, I imagine. Very patriotic.

But for me, the main reason I don't shop there is the customer service. When I lived down in Virginia, I swore off Wal-Marts because the cashiers were slow, the lines long, and if you ever needed some assistance from an associate, you found that the employees were rude and incompetent. I don't like paying incompetent people, so I take my business elsewhere.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/03/25/walmart.insurance.battle/index.html

Compassionate corporations ARE possible. It just takes creative and generous executives. Sometimes too much money IS enough to cut someone who needs it a break. Yeah, i know, i know, if you cut too many breaks, the bottom line suffers. Well, bravo to the exec who finds middle ground that makes sense from and ethical and economic point of view. I have no problem with the rich getting richer, but stories like this are beyond comprehension. If you were CEO of walmart, what would you do?

Where I live, we have 2 Wal-mart supercenters within 5 miles. However, they are worlds apart. One of them is dirty, trashy, and has maybe 3 checkout lines open with about a 30 minute wait. The other is clean, has helpful and friendly clerks, less trashy people shopping there, and plenty of checkouts. It is hard to believe the difference in shopping experience between the two. I would say grades of F and A- respectively for these 2 individual stores. Overall I would give Walmart a grade of C - low prices and have just about everything but unfortunately its the favorite place for trailer trash to spend their welfare checks.

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