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June 06, 2008

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I hate those self-checkout lines. It seems that once you finally get to the checkout and start scanning your items, it messes up on every other one and then you have to wait for the cashier to come and clear it out. EVERY time I've used them, the same thing happens; even at different stores. I check each item as they instruct but it never fails!

I'm not paying higher prices for less quality merchandise to have to check myself out. That is why I usually do more shopping at Target or other stores in my neighborhood. Customer service seems to have run away with the teaching of manners.

So what did you do? Did you leave the cart or go through the self-checkout?

I think they have their thinking backwards - they should do away with the 10 items or less lanes and let those people choose to use self-checkout if they want. I don't mind using them when I have only a handful of items, but if I were in your situation, I would have left the cart and let someone know why. Let them pay for their stupidity.

CF --

My wife handled the checkout (we had too much time invested in shopping to leave the items) while I looked around for a manager. (couldn't find one) We have to go back this weekend to return an item, so I'll look for the manager again -- I see him often -- and let him know about my experience.

Why all the self-checkout hate? I love using self checkout. I'm at least twice as fast at checking myself out as any of their employees. Plus I can control my own bagging. I can put the jug of juice in a bag if I want. And I can put more than one can in a bag if I want.

Quality for Wal-mart depends. Store brands suck. And don't by anything fresh there. But if its in a box or a can, its fine.

Interesting you should mention the self-checkout. Our Walmart used to have self-checkout, but then they yanked it. I wonder if they had too many complaints like yours. I'm sure it's an item that individual store managers get to decide whether to use or not.

Where we live, there are two Walmarts equidistant from our house, so we get to decide which one to shop at. And while you might think all Walmarts are the same, it's surprising how different they can be.

Given that, I would definitely let the manager know your concerns. It can really make a difference.

Walmart's glory days appear to have come and gone, that's for sure.

However, the Target closest to me is, and always has been since they opened maybe five years ago, a ghost town. They have around 25 check-out lanes, but I've never seen more than two with checkers (at opposite sides of the store). Even though they have no checkers, it doesn't matter, because they have no business! Everyone who works there is polite and helpful, but that could be because I'm the only customer in the store!

The Target is right beside the WalMart, and while WalMart is making me angrier all the time, their prices are FAR less than Target. In every department.

E-mail the company. Point out that you have a very popular finance blog and you have influence. Point out this post.

That is a ridiculous policy. It needs to get past the local store manager.

Self-checkouts are fine for a few small items, but when you have large bags of fertilizer, cat food, blocks of wood, or produce that has has to counted and weighed, they stink.

I for one love self-checkout, not only because it is usually faster, but I don't have to be troubled with an inquisitive / overexuberant / generally distracting checker. I perform the simple task of checking my goods and paying for them and leaving.

I don't like people who seem to have a complete brain freeze at the sight of any computer interface that isn't Microsoft Word. If you don't know how to use self-checkout, please don't use it. It's for expediency, not for sluggishness.

I also don't like when the checkers come running to your aid because you made a simple, easily correctable error like scanning the next thing too soon, or because they don't trust you not to ring up radishes as tomatoes. I take the self-checkout because I don't want to be hassled by condescending first-tier tech support.

Frankly, bottom line is, I have little to no pity for someone who can't figure out a) put the barcode in front of the bright red light and b) press the words on the screen that reflect the things you want to do. It ain't rocket science. It ain't even firecracker science.

Though it does shake my brain to hear that someone who is famous-blog smart about microeconomics can't figure out one of the most basic entry-level jobs that doesn't involve hot grease.

Seriously. "Trained as scanners"? Hell, you don't even need GED to be a checker. That's a pretty pathetic whine. And I thought DIY was one of the tenets of frugality.

What time did you go to the store at? I have seen many ugly lines at Wal-Mart but not that. I did go once at 4 AM and they told me I couldn't check out for fifteen minutes.

The good news is that you didn't get bit by a scorpion like that one little girl over the holiday weekend.

Get used to it. All the grocery and big box stores in my vicinity seem to be going at least 85% self-check, 15% human-check. Meijer, Walmart, Kroger, etc. I actually prefer the self-check for me because I can see every price entered and avoid the [often] disgruntled worker. On the down side, others can't seem to work these machines so I end up waiting longer in line. Also, liquor or an equipment failure will impose a significant delay.

Sounds like this was more an excuse to hate on Walmart. They don't push good customer service or extreme variety or super-fresh produce--they push cheap prices on commodity goods. If you don't enjoy that paradigm, don't shop there. You might get a friendly smile and happier experience at Target but you'll pay for it. Their prices significantly exceed those of Walmart. Your choice seems to run counter to the theme of this blog.

Welcome to the good side.

K --

"I for one love self-checkout, not only because it is usually faster, but I don't have to be troubled with an inquisitive / overexuberant / generally distracting checker. I perform the simple task of checking my goods and paying for them and leaving."

Good for you. I prefer to have the service I'm paying for completed. I haven't seen Walmart's prices go down since they've changed to this policy, so I'm assuming I'm still paying for it. Furthermore, their competitors offer this service, so they're at a disadvantage versus other places I shop.


"I don't like people who seem to have a complete brain freeze at the sight of any computer interface that isn't Microsoft Word. If you don't know how to use self-checkout, please don't use it. It's for expediency, not for sluggishness."

That's EXACTLY the point -- I DON'T WANT TO USE IT!!! But I have no choice.


"Frankly, bottom line is, I have little to no pity for someone who can't figure out a) put the barcode in front of the bright red light and b) press the words on the screen that reflect the things you want to do. It ain't rocket science. It ain't even firecracker science."

Congrats on being able to operate a self-scanner at Walmart. I'm sure that skill will reward you in many ways throughout your lifetime.


"Though it does shake my brain to hear that someone who is famous-blog smart about microeconomics can't figure out one of the most basic entry-level jobs that doesn't involve hot grease."

It's not that I can't (I could if I wanted to). The point is -- I DON'T WANT TO USE IT!!! See above.


"Seriously. "Trained as scanners"? Hell, you don't even need GED to be a checker. That's a pretty pathetic whine. And I thought DIY was one of the tenets of frugality."

Can you detail for me actually how I'd be saving money or improving my finances in any way by scanning items myself at Walmart?

I don't mind self checkout at grocery stores that have a conveyor and a visual sensor, but even then it's a hassle because I end up searching every item for the UPC (trained scanners can do this in their sleep) and have to bag them myself, adding on a good 10 minutes to my trip. Also, I end up having to wait for a person to come over to validate my coupons. But it's not so bad.

Wal mart has a weight sensor and a space of about 2 bags for you to put the stuff after you scan it. If you don't put it in a bag soon enough, it gives you an error (which is hard when the bags are stuck together). If you move one of the full bags to start another one, it gives you an error. If your item is too light, it gives you an error. I agree that is't not a hassle for under ~10 items, so they should reverse their policy.

Luke --

It was 10 to 11 am on a Saturday.

I've been done with WalMart for a while now. But what did it for me was the lack of shopping carts. It seemed that every time I went in to the store there were absolutely no shopping carts. There weren't a few that customers had to fight over, there were none. On top of that, there was generally at least one WalMart employee standing right by the empty carts doing nothing about it. Maybe I'm lazy, but I didn't want to have to hunt in the parking lot to find a cart to use. Combine that with their too narrow aisles and pushy patrons and I was done.

I'm a hardcore Target loyalist. They may be a bit more expensive but my sanity is worth it.

For those of you saying that Target is more expensive than Walmart, check out this post:

http://www.freemoneyfinance.com/2008/04/review-target.html

Key quote:

"In February, Citigroup managing director and analyst Deborah Weinswig polled shoppers and found that though Target consistently underprices supermarkets on groceries by about 10% to 15%, shoppers perceived the opposite: that Target's prices were a full 20% higher. Moreover, though prices at Target average out to within 1% to 3% of those of Wal-Mart, 87% of respondents said they shopped at Wal-Mart because it was the cheapest. "The problem could be that some of these stores are so clean that you just assume you're paying more," says Weinswig."

Not sure if this is true or not, and I have problems with Target as well (see the link above), but this episode with Walmart put me over the edge.

I'm glad you're joining the millions of other Americans (like me) who avoid/boycott Walmart. Too bad it took you this long to see the light.

We often fill up a cart at our grocery store and pull up to the busy lane, only for there to be no bagger by the time we check out. I REFUSE to walk behind the bags and bag my own groceries. I am paying them to do it, they can do it. However, I adore the option of going through the self checkout when I have only a couple items, it's a much better experience. They need to have both options.

I do find Home Depot's self checkout to be hilarious. I have never made it through without having to be helped with something awkward I have. It's a joke.

"Can you detail for me actually how I'd be saving money or improving my finances in any way by scanning items myself at Walmart?"

Actually, yes. Self checkout is MUCH faster. So that saves you time and we all know how much your time is worth because you've told us before.

The disturbing thing to me is your seemingly elitist attitude that "the help" should do this for you. Not that I don't think they should. I mean, only servicing people with 10 items or less? That IS ridiculous. But, to be honest, you sound like kind of a dick in the way you try to get your message across. I see a pattern emerging that seems to indicate a feeling of disdain on your part towards those lower on the totem pole of life than yourself. It's unbecoming.

I agree! I like to use the self-check when I only have a couple of items, but their are other times it just isn't worth the hassle. I almost always have trouble with the ones at Wal Mart. For some reason, the ones at Kroger give me no trouble. Wal Mart is not worth saving a couple of pennies. After about 2-3 years every Wal Mart seems to go down hill...

FMF --

I was very surprised at your reaction to K's comments. I would have thought you would treat your readers with more respect. I love your blog but quite frankly don't want to hear you complain about Wal Mart. There will always be Wal Mart haters out there, I'm one of them. But I still shop there and its because of the items I buy. I check them against Target and King Soopers and again for what I buy, you cant beat Wal Marts prices. Many people hate Walmart but for someone with little income at this time, its a great option for me and many other people. Why do you think the stock has been doing so well this year? Just my two cents...

I think the most disappointing thing is you ragging on someone who made a comment. You seem like this nice loving person, apparently that isn't the case.

I had a similar experience a few days. Went to Walmart, shopped for 15 mins, picked up merchandise worth $40 and spent 30 minutes in the check out lane. WORST PART is, I don't mind the self-check out as I had small items, but Walmart has closed the self-checkout lanes.... am headed to the nearest Target store where the prices are comparable and it is located not too far off from Walmart....

I gave up on wal-mart a long time ago.

David --

It's not faster the way I'd do it.

Brian --

So I don't have the right to disagree with someone? Especially when she insults me?

You must be new here...

Brian,

He shouldn't have to take insulting comments from one of his readers though. I found his responses hilarious and at the appropriate level as the comments left for him.

FMF,
Walmart is hit and miss with me. Sometimes I hate it, sometimes I love it. It depends on my mood at the time. For the most part, though, to me, they are just like any other store.

I think I will keep the Walmart stock for now because they just beat analysts expectations. I see that happening more and more in the future with gas and the economy in the shape they are in. The perception that Wally World is cheaper will pay off big time for them and their stock holders in the coming quarters. Considering that their stock has been stagnating for the past couple of years, this could be a boon for them.

Wal-mart is about getting what you pay for, in all the worst ways. Pay next to nothing, and you should expect next to nothing. I haven't set foot in a Wal-mart for years.

Wow, people, lay off FMF. This gripe doesn't seem to me to have anything to do with a "feeling of disdain" towards people lower on the totem pole. I don't read anything in this post that would indicate that cashiers are stupid or less worthwhile. (In fact, it would seem that the opposite is true, or else FMF would have preferred to use the self-checkout). This is a simple issue of getting what you're obviously still paying for. As FMF said, the prices in this Wal-mart are not lower as a result of his having to personally check $130 worth of items. I also would have been incredibly irritated to discover that I had to check myself out, despite spending so much.

I like the self-checkout when I have a few items (all bar-coded) and don't want to wait in line. Otherwise, I expect to have a cashier checking things out. That's not condescension on my part; that's just wanting to get a service I am paying for.

David --

BTW, I find the fact that you'd run over a kid versus a dog (as you said here: http://www.freemoneyfinance.com/2008/05/1200-vet-bill-a.html ) very unbecoming.

It is stupid for Walmart to have nothing but the self check out and 10 item or less lanes open. Thats poor management.

I've never shopped at Walmart, the closest one to me is about 25 miles away. I like Target just fine.

I've used self check out at a few chains here and it works great for a few small items. But if you have a lot of items and large bulky items then a real checker is better. The software in the self check out computer can make a big difference. Sometimes the sensors can be a little sensitive or something and the computer ends up making you wait for assistance for no reason too often. Self checkout can take a little getting used to before you know how to do it right and the instructions are often poor or nonexistant.

Jim

You get what you pay for... lousy customer service and support of child labor overseas!!

I love self-checkout. Reminds me of playing store as a kid.... 'cept it really works!!! And I like being able to monitor my prices at my own pace, instead of trying to keep up with a checker who doesn't give a hang about whether it scanned right or not.

That being said, I find that the caliber of people at our Walmart (the customers - not only the help) are rude and make the experience horrible. They crowd the aisles without the human decency to say "excuse me." They do not monitor their children and we risk Grandma getting knocked over by some unruly child every time. I hate being shoved down an aisle by rude people, feel threatened when the store is overcrowded and feel dirty when forced to listen to someone else swear very loudly over some insult or life situation....

I'd rather pay a bit more and have some peace of mind.... I will self check, but please let me get my eggs down the aisle without getting scrambled.

I've been avoiding Walmart as much as possible for a long time now, but I recently moved into a new house with a Walmart right next door to my neighborhood.

The other day I had to run and buy a few items for a meal that we were preparing, so I decided to 'stop by' Walmart as it was the closest food retailer.

This trip reminded me why I have been avoiding Walmart. As others have mentioned, the caliber of people (shoppers & employees) seems to be lower at Walmart, the checkout was terrible and the customer service is horrendous.

I'll be going making the extra journey to Target and using my local grocery store (and Costco) from now on...

Quote: lousy customer service and support of child labor overseas!!

I hate their customer service also but don't have a problem with some overseas kid making a few bucks which is alot of money for them! :o)

Might want to skip your sunday post this week buddy. Not sure you're in a state of mind to preach for God this week. Turn the other cheek hasn't been our strong suit today. Oh well, there is always tomorrow.

Last time I was at Target to buy just a couple of items and was late for a party and in a hurry, I worried the lines would take quite awhile. As I got in line behind what I perceived to be the shortest line (2-3 people ahead of me), the cashier at the Service/Returns counter called me over and checked me out. What service!!! I was out of there almost as fast as I walked in, and left feeling great. No computer is ever going to do that for me. (Unless it's a kiosk at the airport saying they've upgraded me to first class... even then, I much prefer interacting with *people*, not software interfaces.)

The perception that Target groceries are higher than they actually are makes sense. I only assume they're higher... I don't know if they are or not. Usually I shop a local chain for groceries, though. They support a lot of local running races, so I'm happy to give them my business.

In the late 90s, I made the decision to never go to Wal-Mart again. At that time, their product quality was going down the drain, and the environment wasn't pleasant to shop in. Then, last year, my sister and I decided to look for an office desk. We found one at Wal-Mart at a good price. Perhaps Wal-Mart had redeemed itself? yeah, right... We couldn't find anyone to help us put this heavy box on a "flat cart" to get it to the cashier. Finally, after 15 minutes of looking, we found a teenager working there. Here is where my other complaint comes in. Is it just me or are the young people working in stores today just flat rude? The young man acted as if we were a "nuisance" that we needed assistance! sigh...Once we paid for the desk, there was no one to help us get the cart to our vehicle. Where did that kid go? grrrr!! The cashier called on the PA for assistance, and, once again, after 15 minutes, no one showed up. By this time, I'm beyond peeved, so I pushed the cart out to the parking lot and lifted this thing into the vehicle with my sister's help. Give me a break!! Is it too much to ask to be treated as a valued customer? I, too, go to Target now. Who needs the irritation? By the way, on an unrelated matter, I wrote Wal-Mart corporate headquarters last year on behalf of my elderly parents, who went there and were spoken to in a disrespectful manner by a stock clerk just for asking help to find a product. I don't think so!! Suffice it to say, I'm never going back.

One more thing. I consider today to have been a bad experience with your blog. Most days I have good experiences. I will not give up your blog based on today. That would be overreacting. Now I would expect you to think, what do I care if this one guy gives up my blog? Welcome to Walmart's perspective. More power to you if you want to give up Walmart but do it based on the totality of you experiences and not one event.
By the way, have we changed our tune on Target's Salvation Army (http://www.freemoneyfinance.com/2008/04/review-target.html)stance or are we just looking the other way because it's convenient. Ok, THAT was rude.

Nothing like a Wal-Mart post to get everyone in a cheery mood! =)

Seriously though, I count myself among those that try to avoid WM. Here in Houston we are lucky enough to still have a competitive grocery market and can usually find better prices than WM just by shopping the sales.

My observation is the same as many about the caliber of people at WM: most of them are just the rudest and dumbest people on the planet. The employees are all morons and the customers are oblivious and/or inconsiderate, not to mention usually when I go in there I feel like the only one actually paying for my groceries and not using food stamps. And yes, the customer service is horrible. Usually 3 of 36 registers open and a line of 10 people minimum in each. My closest WM doesn't have self-checkouts, probably because they have figured out that the patrons around here would rob them blind, so at least you will have the pleasure of a real high school dropout ringing up your groceries.

Target may cost more, but in my mind my time and sanity is worth it!

All this complaining about self-checkout reminds me of the furor over pumping your own gas. Anyone else here remember that? Who pays for full service today?

As to Target's prices: I base my view on this on my own experience, albeit somewhat limited. They were always higher, probably at least 20%, except for the loss leader sodas that got me there. (I have pretty much given those up now.)

As to child labor: Who thinks Target, et. al. doesn't use that. It is also a much deeper issue than the pontificating in the U.S. would acknowledge. That is likely to be less of a problem as other countries get better off. Just cutting off production won't help that.

I would also note that I have found many of the "Great Value" brand products to be quite fine. The cheese is acceptable, and as cheap or cheaper than the options at Save-A-Lot.

Staff helpfulness varies. I have had both good and bad experiences in this area. WalMart remains cheaper than the other options. In my case, the only close Target is a much older store that I may have been in once. One close WalMart is literally brand new and a really nice store (though I have seen even nicer ones in 2 other spots far away.

Ultimately, this probably boils down to a rash decision based on a stupid management call in one case. Some things will still be cheaper at WalMart, other things won't. Shop where you want, but such "final decisions" tend to not be such. :)

Brad

The complaints about the "caliber of people - customers and employees" at Walmart are indicative of each user's level of classism. I can't say I feel any differently. If you shop there by choice, and not by necessity, chances are you will feel uncomfortable with the super discount shopping experience.

Cleanliness comes at a price - both more expensive goods and lower volume of human traffic through the store.

Service comes at a price - if middle class teenagers have a choice about where to work P/T, they will choose to work at Target or anywhere else that doesn't have Walmart's reputation, unless Walmart pays more or is the only game in town. It's cleaner, people are (a tiny bit) nicer, better lit (safety concern after hours)...so the better staff will self-select to work elsewhere.

You will, invariably, still find a few excellent staff members at Walmart, probably working like crazy to get promoted off the store floor and into management.

The complaints about the "caliber of people - customers and employees" at Walmart are indicative of each user's level of classism. I can't say I feel any differently. If you shop there by choice, and not by necessity, chances are you will feel uncomfortable with the super discount shopping experience.

Cleanliness comes at a price - both more expensive goods and lower volume of human traffic through the store.

Service comes at a price - if middle class teenagers have a choice about where to work P/T, they will choose to work at Target or anywhere else that doesn't have Walmart's reputation, unless Walmart pays more or is the only game in town. It's cleaner, people are (a tiny bit) nicer, better lit (safety concern after hours)...so the better staff will self-select to work elsewhere.

You will, invariably, still find a few excellent staff members at Walmart, probably working like crazy to get promoted off the store floor and into management.

Walmart strives to provide the lowest price in town. They sacrifice quality and, apparently, customer service to provide those low prices. If you want service, expect to pony up more cash.

toFMF (or should I call you Jeff?) --

I give 0% weight to anonymous comments. I'm always surprised by people who give harsh comments while trying to keep their identities hidden. I guess I shouldn't be.

And in case you haven't noticed, Walmart charges for their services and keep the profits. Their purpose for being is to make money.

I do not blog for money and I give away all the profits that I do make from this site. My purpose is to tell what I do financially and help others out as a result. If people (like you) don't like that, then it's really no big deal to me. I'm writing for those who want to grow their net worths, not those who want to leave snide, sarcastic and (attempted) anonymous comments.

Straying from the point aren't we. Hopefully we can give some weight to this since I left my name. I said in my comment you were free to dislike walmart but wanted you to do it for the right reasons. You're absolutely correct and I commend you for giving the profits of this blog to charity. But please take the time to think about my other comments. If they don't apply, fine. But snide or not my opinion is that you are being hypocritical. My criticism was not presented as constructive because your follow up comments for others had been left in a manner deserving of the respect shown them, read snide. If you look in them I think you'll find some valid points. If you truly think it was fair to treat somebody who loves there dog like you did, well I'm wrong. While there opinions might not coincide with yours it does not give you the right to judge them which is what exactly what you did. Bottom line here is

treat others as you want to be treated

I have no problems with your comments towards me. I know them well (surprise, I have to work thru the same things I'm calling you on.) Deflect away from the issue so that you don't have to look at it. It's hard to admit sometimes. Now I come off as judgemental but that's not what I intend. If you think you treated others fairly then you're in the clear no matter what I say here. But your attitude and general demeanor (ie profits to charity, sunday posts) indicate to me your willing to at least try to look at actions and reflect on them.

Wow I just got through reading the comments and I am really surprised to see all the people who hate WalMart. I like shopping there and I have not had any bad experiences.

I noticed that some people said the customers were bad..but I think that is overgeneralizing a bit. I am a considerate shopper and I hang stuff back on the racks when I try it out (I worked in retail so I know how the employees feel when the clothes are a mess) and I put stuff back on the shelves in the correct spot.

I shop at WallyWorld because the prices are lower on the things I buy all the time. I don't know what stores you guys are going into because I don't see dirty/smelly/unstaffed/other stores where I shop.

I have been in longer lines at Target and Kmart. The only place I spend less time than at Walmart is in the lines at CVS.

I am sorry that FMF had a bad time there...but Walmart still works for me :-)

Not trained as checkers? Give me a break, you run the barcode over the reader. It's not rocket science.

Jeff --

If someone disagrees with me, that's fine, this blog is about open and honest discussion. But when they answer with snide, rude and mean-spirited comments -- simply because they can remain "anonymous" on the web -- then I'm going to be a bit more direct on my responses as well. My assumption is that they can take it since they can certainly dish it out.

I had that same experience on the same day! The self checkout is very poorly designed! Other walmarts around where I'm at that don't have self checkout have HUGE check out lines - I'm done too - I thought it this weekend! weird... I suspect a lot of other people are having the same experience.

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