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June 13, 2008

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I would be interested to see the worth of working dads. What is the value (and overtime) of what they do around the house?

^^^ I agree with greg... Dad's dont' just work 40 hours and do absolutely nothing at home.

When I take my vacation time for when the regular babysitter (Grandma . . . paid) goes on a trip or just needs some time off I stay home with the kids. Guess what, it's FREAKING SIMPLE. We have a 3 year old and a 6 year old so one is home all the time and one goes to school. You throw some laundry in, do up some dishes, tidy up a bit, and then go for a walk. . . maybe you read a book, possibly hop the bus and go get some groceries. Wow... real tough days there.

If you subtract from that 116K the amount of time everyone else has to listen to the moaning and whining about how hard it is, you'd probably be down to 20-30K already.

I would love to be paid that, so don't get me wrong, but I'm not sure you can really put a price on what I do each day. I don't want to be compensated with money. Appreciation is enough. I would like a little more help from my husband and in a perfect world, I would definitely have a housekeeper.

Daily life is not nearly as easy and shipping the kids off to school (we homeschool) and running a load of laundry. I have 3 active kids that require my attention all day. What was left out of the comment above is the 3 meals a day plus snacks, the spills, millions of LEGOs all over the floor, the boo boos, the naps and cuddles, the nursing, and the millions of questions to be looked up and answered each day. I wouldn't trade it for the world but it's not "freaking simple" either.

God I hate this study. The value of any stay at home parent is simple to calculate, half the total family income. If it were any more than that they would be in the work force and the other parent would stay home.

I guess it's a fun little exercise but I don't think the number has much value at all because it's not like you're saving, let alone making, that much money by being a stay-at-home mom.

One way to look at this would be "replacement value" - essentially "what would it cost to replace the services provided by the stay-at-home mom?" We based my wife's life insurance on this value - approx. $25,000 annually for kid-watching, house cleaning, laundry, etc.

The part I struggle with is that most families where mom works don't pay to have their laundry done and other chores. They just get piled on top.

I can understand a working Dad putting in more "work" at home if Mom were working, too, but I stay home and that's MY job, so I do nearly all of the work. In fact, my husband does less around the house now that we have kids.

I think these studies are pretty useless, though, because while you can pay for daycare, a housekeeper, meals, etc. you can't replace Mom getting up in the middle of the night for 18 months to calm and nurse a baby. Or a Mom being home to take someone a forgotten project at school, or stay home and nurse a sick child for several days.

Matt N--I disagree. Many families don't operate that way, finding that Mom really is better at home with the kids than Dad could ever be--or wants to be (breastfeeding aside).

Traciatim--I find your comment demeaning. Not all moms who get to stay home whine about it--I'm privileged to focus my energy on my family and my home. Asking for gratitude for services performed is payment enough--but most Moms don't get that.

I think the study is interesting, and it's good to point to the value of stay-at-home mothers. I would disagree with the total they come with though. I don't think it qualifies for over time. Any small business owner knows that you work whatever hours you have to. There's no overtime. It's an investment and you want to see it grow. The hours are secondary to the product, you do what you have to to get it done. Some weeks it's a ton of work. Others weeks not so much. And the variable is the number of children, though the work does not increase exponentially. So I'd go with something more in the $70K range if I was putting a value on it (for where I live, NYC or SanFran would push this amount up for sure).

I would sure like Traciatim to actually try to stay home with her kids. Sure, a little bit of time here and there isn't difficult.

I have to agree with Emily C about the study being pretty useless because it is hard to determine the value of the little things. You can't put a value on Mom getting up and taking care of the sick kids, so dad can sleep because he has to go to work in the am. You can't put a value on being there when your child first learns to walk, talk, read, write, etc. It is so much more than just cleaning and doing laundry. It is reward seeing the light on their face when they finally get something they have been struggling with. It is the relief of pressure knowing that I don't have to struggle where to put my child, are they getting enough of my time, is this the right childcare facility for them. We homeschool, and although it has its own challenges, I just sit back and smile as my friends worry and fret over what their child may or may not learn. Being a SAHM is worth every sacrifice. Don't tell me it is only for those who make enough money. We set out from the beginning of our marriage knowing that I would eventually be a SAHM. We used my income to pay off debt, increase savings, and to "blow" on us, too. We bought a smaller house. I knew if my parents could do it (and we were dirt poor, including lay offs during my childhood), then anyone can do it.

This is a cute study. But the problem is no one is paying that type of money for mom to stay home.

I would rater have 50k a year in real money than 116k in theoretical money.

I dont think stay at home mom's need this to validate what they do.

^^^^^

jeeze....I just woke up (west coast) sorry for all the grammer errors above.

If corporate hiring practices for CEOs were anything like my hiring practices for my kids' stay at home mom, there would be sexual harrassment and discrimination lawsuits all over the place.

Does that mean CEO can be excluded from the job titles for a SAHM?

hehe

I think that study could be legitimate, but ONLY if they removed the CEO and psychologist components. Yeah, a stay at home mom (who might have never graduated from college) should be compensated for one hour per day at a CEO rate. What a ridiculous joke.

This study is almost as bad as the yearly "Women earn 71 cents for every dollar a man earns" without taking into account 1) what careers each gender tends to choose (e.g. engineering which is heavily dominated by men vs teachers for women), 2) factoring in time away from careers that MANY women suffer from, and 3) the fact that men in general are more likely to ask/demand more money. I have worked in many different places, and every woman with a similar background (degrees from similar schools) with the same number of years worked earns very very close (if not the same) as I do.

"If corporate hiring practices for CEOs were anything like my hiring practices for my kids' stay at home mom, there would be sexual harrassment and discrimination lawsuits all over the place."

Good one!

I don't think you can really attach a dollar value to being a parent. So trying to figure its value in terms of pay rate doesn't really make sense. There are intangibles that just can't be calculated or equated to dollars.

You might want to figure the equivalent cost of a stay at home mom/dad if you are trying to decide if you should work or stay at home. If you're making that comparison than attaching a dollar value to the work might make sense. I think a more realistic calculation would start with just figuring the cost of hiring the services. What would it cost to hire a nanny and/or use daycare or housekeeping? I think we can assume that working parent(s) would do something and cover some hours of the week and some live in full time help would cover the rest. Getting a nanny would cover a lot of the work and they typically make $500-700 a week with room & board. You could use daycare which averages around $600 a week. Child care workers make $17k annual median pay. You could hire two childcare workers to cover 2 shifts for 80 hours and cover almost everything for $35k a year. Overall, I think a figure in the $25-50k range is more realistic estimate if you're just looking at the cost of hiring out the work. Of course it will vary depending on location like any wage figure. But again, this is not the 'value' of a parent, its just what it costs to hire childcare help.


Jim

My wife is a stay at home mom. In my opinion, I would value her contribution to the household as ... priceless! I love having her at home and wouldn't have it any other way. Just think of all the things that she gets done that we used to have to do on nights and weekends when we both worked--and that was BEFORE we had kids! I mean just the amount of time that it frees up in our hectic schedules is enough to convince me that everyone should do it. Our kids are taken care of properly, so we don't have to worry about what strangers might be doing to them or teaching them. They learn our morals and values and NOT somebody else's. Who can put a price tag on that? Then there are the household chores. She runs all the errands and does all the cleaning through the week which means when the weekend rolls around, we are free to do whatever we want! Talk about a stress reducer. This also means that (IMO) our kids will grow up better adjusted then those in families where they are always rushing around and have no time to just relax. We see this all the time in our friend's lives. Sure, they have more money and more stuff but their kids are stressed out and they aren't even 8 yrs. old yet! They are sleep deprived and don't understand how to relax and have a good time. So, to reiterate my former statement--I love having her at home and wouldn't change a thing.

Silly study with no value. If the pay was that high, we'd all be stay at home moms. Then again, the people who look at this and cry outrage in any direction are fairly delusion in nature.

There is an inherent cost for staying at home, but it by no means can be tied to such wages. For example, my wife is a teacher. Does that mean if she stays at home she just got a 80k raise? No. In fact in means we just lost 30k in gross income, but dropping the cost of daycare services.

Every house has laundry, cleaning, and yes even "accidents" so the actual value isn't fair.

In closing, I don't remember Tony Danza pulling in 100k for babysitting Mona and Jonathan.

I worked on off but the duties remained the same.....cooked, cleaned, paid bills, shopped, mowed the grass, washed the cars, picked up kids, dropped off kids, teacher meetings, doctor appts., vet appts., ran husband errands and washed clothes. You couldn't pay someone else enough money to do what I did and still do. My husband comes home from work, eats dinner and then goes to bed. On Sundays...sometimes Saturday too, plays golf.. What a life. Are moms really worth so little?

To All (above):
At the end of the day, showing appreciation and understanding to your spouse for a job well done, would pay out more than mere dollars and cents.

To those in Government positions or who have any pull whatsoever:
In other countries, women get paid to stay home (not sure about the men, but why not). Why are we not receiving pay for our contribution to society. We are not just passing our children on to be raised by others. We are keeping spots available to people who really need daycare. We are not milking the welfare system and are taking a cut in pay. We are considered 'unemployed' in everyone's eyes, which is shameful, including the government and banks! In the end, these studies do nothing except point out the fact that at-home-mom's aren't making any money at all. No one has even mentioned that there are no sick days or vacations. When we go on vacation, it's twice the work for the at-home-mom. Until you've stayed with more than just one child, for more than just one week, you haven't really done your homework. That sounds pretty uneducated. For those who still think it's easy after doing all of that, simply have very low standards, and didn't do their very best. Only time will tell when you're entering the teenage years. Good luck.

LOL, I love how some of the "Dads" have to chime in.. "Hey, what about me what am I worth..." Calm down Greg and Dannger(splg) nobody is saying you are not worth as much as your wife. Although I must say you two use the term working dad losely considering the fact that mid morning you two are in fact NOT working but wasting time bloging. Of course this article is subjective it is not supposed to be concrete. I wont be going to uncle sam demanding my 100k. There is no price you could put on a stay at home mom. The only thing that is certain is that if I did not stay home we would have to spend a ton of money on daycare where my child would not get the type of care he gets from me. It is meant to be a fun "what if" type of article. No one is taking this article seriously except for a couple of dads who dont want to give their wives credit, but instead want to ask for credit themselves. My worth or any stay at home mom's worth is not based on some figures in a free money finance article. My worth is in the smiling face of my son when I wake him up from his naps or in the thanks I get from my husband when I make him breakfast. There is no amount of money I would trade for those priceless moments.

It's so fascinating to me that in European countries mothers who work at home do get compensated...They get money. And let's face it in society when you receive money or "work" you are valued. Unfortunately, people in the U.S. don't support the enourmous responsibility of raising the next generation and keeping a home. It's not just throwing in laundry and putting a plate of food in front of children. A cold, distant and regimented day care center can do that. That's why thousands of children get hurt or killed each year in these centers. To me, it's sad that other mothers who work outside the home think that mothers who work inside the home are invaluable and agree with what others (some men, business exec., etc.) say about raising children. Not everyone can do it. Those that need to rationalize it some way will find a way to do so. I just find it humiliating to see that woman have come so far in the workplace with "almost" equal pay for the same job as a man, yet there is a demeaning attitude toward mothers for raising the next generation and feeling they don't need to be compensated monetarily.

Stupid Study. This "salary" should be solely based on the number of kids in the family and local cost of child care. If a family can create net gain income based on their professions, then fiscally it is a better alternative for them to work. In this model, is it mentioned that you don't need a housekeeper, day cook or any other servies between 8&5 if your kids are in all day care? Overtime is only calculated because you never left the work site. An addendum to this study should be the deduction we take from our imaginary income for every talk show watched, video game played, power nap taken, the added wear and tear on the facilities, appliances and transportation costs because we are consuming more resources being home all the time. If fiscal justification is what you need to define your worth, you need more help than your kids.

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