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August 03, 2008

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I didn't stop tithing because I never started. Charity, like government social programs, don't really help anyone, they simply enable people who don't want to work to be lazy. I find no distinction between government welfare and your local church charity, they're the exact same thing.

I hope you are never in need of help, Trask - in the world you'd wish, you would be on your own.

It's certainly your right to do with your money what you wish, but I believe we were placed on this earth to be servants to others, not to hoard every penny for our own enjoyment and glory. It's a shame your heart is so hard against charity in general - the only reason government assistance is in existence is because private charity and assistance can't meet the need.

FWF,

I'm with you - times like this demand are no different than any other - and if anything, tithing is more important now since more people are in need.

I realize that if I put my tithe towards my debt payoff plan, I'd be out of debt MUCH sooner, or I could put away a lot more money as a defense against in this tricky economy. But that money is earmarked for my church, so I won't make that compromise.

Help is one thing, charity is another. I'm perfectly willing to lend a person money if they have a reasonable way of paying it back. I'm for student loans to help people advance to earn a greater salary but giving money to an organization to simply funnel it to other people doesn't really work in modern society.

How many BILLIONS have been sent to places all over the world and what has been the net result? More poverty along with more people. Contrast this with investment that pours into an area and you'll be amazed at the results.

I'm a big fan of Kiva because they at least make a tempt to lend/give money to people who are actually trying to better themselves. Feeding or sheltering people today will keep them fed and dry today but those people will simply need more food and shelter tomorrow. It never ends and it never gets better.

We need to remember that according to the Bible, tithing and other Christian giving is an act of worship. So naturally, those who don't profess the Christian faith will probably think that giving tithes and offerings is nonsense (1 Cor 2:14); just like they probably think that spending hours in church on Sunday is a huge waste of time... not to mention all the time & effort spent in Bible study and prayer. There's nothing surprising here. Of course they feel that way. We shouldn't expect them to value Christian things, because they're not Christian! So I'm not offended when a non-Christian ridicules my priorities and values. In fact, I expect it.

On another note: I found that my Christian giving was very inconsistent until I made some changes. I would often change my giving depending on my circumstances. Then I simply adopted a practice that we already use elsewhere: I simply automated it. Just like your 401k contributions are made before you see your check, I set up a separate free checking account and have my charity money automatically deposited there every month. So it doesn't feel like a sacrifice since I never see that money in my net pay anyway. Then, when it comes time to give, I can see in that account how much money has already been set aside for charity.

I've been pleasantly surprised to see how quickly that money adds up! I'm able to consistently tithe and give generously to other worthy charities. Now I can give freely not only to my local church, but also to other world missions, secular charities, etc. And when the girl scout comes to my door, I don't have to be skimpy. I can say, "Sure, I'll take one of everything you've got!". It feels good to always have the funds already set aside to give.

It's a method I would recommend. It works for me.

JC

I agree with the sentiment that Trask gives, but I do think that there are exceptions. For instance, in our church we do research on an individual before giving them help. We offer for them to work for money and try to help people find jobs to better provide for themselves. We offer 12 step classes to help people get over addictions which hinder them from becoming productive members of society.

I've heard of a few decent government programs that do the same. I would probably concede that most government agencies and even churches don't try to actually help people help themselves. It's easier to just give them money but there definitely are exceptions to the rule.

"Charity, like government social programs, don't really help anyone, they simply enable people who don't want to work to be lazy. I find no distinction between government welfare and your local church charity, they're the exact same thing."

There are cases where charity isn't helping, but there are certainly cases where it does help.

I'm sure you've heard the saying "give a man a fish and he'll be fed for a day, teach a man to fish and he'll have food for life". On the scale of effectiveness I'd put charities that teach people towards the top. Here's I'd include things like Pell grants, subsidized work training programs, etc.

A little lower down the scale would be charities that give money, food or other temporal assistance. It's easier to abuse these types of charities to get the free handouts. To some people though it's what they need so that they can start working again or so they can spend a month or two applying for jobs instead of begging.

Pell grants paid for most of my schooling. When my wife graduated before I did medicaid was our insurance for her and our son (I continued to pay for mine through my school). If we hadn't had Pell grants and medicaid it would've taken much longer for me to graduate and I probably still wouldn't be contributing much to society.

I know that some people are smart enough to work full time and go to school full time, but I almost flunked out when I tried to do that. I could only handle either full time school and part time work, or full time work and part time school. If I'd had to pay for my full tuition and my families full insurance I'd still be limping through school part time.

Back to my point, not all charity is equal and not all recipients are in it for the same reasons. You shouldn't donate to charities blindly, do your research and see what the funds will be used for. Personally, I pay tithing and give offerings, but I am aware of what my donations are used for and believe that the programs they help run are beneficial and productive.

I think it is a vary gracious act to continue tithing even during an economic downturn. To learn forex is a great way to bolster finances. For great forex trading education articles I recommend visiting sites such as ForexFace.com.

I have been blessed. About the time that financial times got worse, mine got better personally.

However, even when it was not this way, I still gave to my church, and I've found that if you're not in debt then it's a whole lot easier to give.

How much would you have if you weren't paying interest?

I personally do not tithe because I don't attend church. I also don't agree with the fact that church tithing is charitable, since not all churches/religious organizations are freely helping others with these donations, just like all charitable organizations a large percentage of the money goes to administrative costs.

Personally, I'd rather spend time with my community charities, donate money to organizations I have personally researched or smaller organizations with little to no overhead costs. I enjoy freely giving my time to tutoring students that cannot afford it in my area. My fiance regularly volunteers for numerous organizations and we use our money to purchase physical goods to give to the less fortunate. We also organize toy drives around Xmas with some of our social organizations and work with Toys R' Us to purchase toys at a discount price for this purpose.

For me, this is a way to be a good person and give back to society without the religious regimes I do not agree with.

I launched into reading all past posts on this subject last night. I grew up in church, still attend every Sunday, but I could not argue for or against the subject with supporting facts. The idea had simply been drilled into my head since I was a child. Upon further research today, I am quite surprised to learn that most verses used to support tithing are suauly presented way out of context. There really seems to be no Biblical basis for the mandatory monthly 10% tithe many adhere to today. Read below with an open mind.

FMF - I know your stance on the subject. I was on baord with you until I was prompted last evening to empower myself. I am beginning to learn that just becuase my preacher presents verses and says something is true, that does not mean I should not fully research and seek truth on my own.

http://www.victorstephens.com/victorstephenswebsite_014.htm

Charity is hardly exclusively a Christian value, or even a religious one. Frankly, I know (and see on the pf blog rounds) far more hard-hearted Christians who would rather let the poor rot because obviously a person is only poor if he is lazy than humanists who think the same way. But then humanists don't get to pretend to themselves that they're better-off because God likes them better.

I'm the author of the referenced article. Thanks for the link! Obviously you know my thoughts on the topic :) But I really like your site- keep up the good work!

I would agree with Trask in this idea of just "giving" money away to people who will do nothing more than just spend it and then ask for another "hand-out". Unfortunately many government programs are this way. The welfare system being the best example of this.

However, "tithing" is a whole different ballgame. Not to say that there AREN'T corrupt churches out there (because there are), but for the most part the leaders of these churches are in fact earning their wages/tithing. You're not just giving out free money, but rather you're paying a minister/youth minister/secretary/worship leader/missionary and whoever else you want to throw in there, a salary to do a job. And I can assure you that most ministers don't get paid enough. An individual who is on call 24 hours a day 7 days a week who welcomes a 3hour phone call at 2:00a.m. from someone who just their child, job, or spouse do to any number of reasons. One who spends his time devoting it to those who are desperately seeking anyone who will help them. One who also has the education and training to deal with such problems. One who also has to answer the questions of "why do bad things happen to good people?".

Yeah, I think it's safe to say that most ministers are underpaid and with the leadership of this country and the direction that it's headed, tithing is needed now more than ever. Not because the minister himself is needing more money, but because the hurting world is in desperate need of those ministers.

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