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January 11, 2009

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I like my church and MOST of what it stands for. However, they recently spent well over $10,000 to send some people to Great Britain on a "mission". However, their "mission" was to "try to bring British college students to Christ." Now, converting Christians is important, but a church in metro Detroit, IMO, has many better uses for $10,000 (we have many people struggling in this area.

Anyway, my point is that if all Christians were to tithe we would certainly be better off, but maybe even better off if we focused on helping people, who will naturally feel connected to a Christian cause, instead of stalking people in Britain talking to them about Christ.

Wow. How much would it take to alleviate world hunger? I remember reading somewhere, and, if I'm not mistaken, it was a little under a 100 billion. I could be wrong, but still. If everyone tithed, world hunger could literally be ended.

Eh, these stats are based on tax write-offs. Many people can't, or just don't write off their charity.

I donated a nice car to a needy family member (not deductible) and a few thou to Meals on Wheels. I can't itemize until I buy a house. According to the IRS, I donated nothing.

A lot of the best kinds of giving -- casserole to a neighbor, giving your old dryer to your cousin's girlfriend, and so on -- don't show up for the IRS.

There's enough grandstanding and showboating taking place with churches around here, and I don't think giving more money will make them a better service to God, or give them incentive to spend it wisely. Monstrous facilities with 10 acre parking garages, coffee houses, bookstores built in, etc,, etc,,... The people that handle the money are still human beings, mind you.

If there were only a way to make the tithe directly to God, while bypassing all the middle-men...

@Shaun - I don't know how that $100 billion figure was calculated, but I have heard that before and my first reaction is that "ending global hunger" will only end it for about a week unless some of the money is spent on education and reducing population growth in some areas. It might sound cold, but since there are too many people and not enough food, the way to eliminate the problem is to either increase food or decrease the number of people. Increasing the amount of food will probably just lead to even more people unless there is some focus on population growth as well.

Regarding tithing, I think it is a good concept, but my wife and I are focusing on giving 10% of our income to charity, not just the church. Eventually we may work up to 10% to the church and money above that to charities of our choice. Of course, that might just be one of those things you tell yourself, like the person who says, "I'll live within my means once I get this next raise."

I stopped giving tithing to my church this year because I disagree with some of their new policies and refuse to support them financially. I am much richer because of it!

Since getting married to my wife, who used to tithe, my life has improved dramatically. As a husband I've tried to continue her example...but honestly, I am only giving 8% of my take home pay. My wife now earns almost nothing as a stay at home Mom. I like to give by supporting a family member who is a missionary. He reports to me regularly about His work on the other side of the world. The church I attend has grown while I've supported it, but I'm looking for a new church now, and have ceased supporting the old one during my search. I'm sure that God knows that tithing is not easy for many of us. But I've known some good Christians who were very wealthy, and I attribute that to the fact that they gave generously - not just to God and the church, but to everyone.

Thanks for the comments on this topic. I was taught from a young age to always pay tithing first, and feel that is one of best "investments" I have made through out my life. I feel that I enjoy providence and many blessings by following this principle!

I understand the concerns with paying a tithe to a church that isn't being a good steward, but would suggest that one look for another church as opposed to not paying a tithe. I am glad to see that many equate tithe to 10%.

I have been struggling with tithing for the last three months or so. I want to give to a local charity instead of a church, but my wife and I have been struggling finacially since Nov. 2007 when my wife lost her job. In Feb. 2008 she had back surgery and couldn't work. Now she is able to work, but cannot find a job. She has been able to collect unemployment during this time, thank you God. We have been paying off as many debts (hospitals, docs. etc.) as we can until unemployment ends in late Feb 2009. I know many people in my area are worse off than us but it would be hard for me to part with 70 dollars a week at this time. Comments are welcome.
Matt

Tithing has existed for the last 5,000 years and I would argue that life has gotten much better these past 100 years. It wasn't tithing that brought us here, it was modern capitalism, freedom and secular law.

MarkB said: "Anyway, my point is that if all Christians were to tithe we would certainly be better off, but maybe even better off if we focused on helping people, who will naturally feel connected to a Christian cause, instead of stalking people in Britain talking to them about Christ."

MarkB, the Great Commission says to go forth to all nations and make disciples. If you're a Christian, surely you understand that converting people to Christ is the whole point. If that $10,000 converts just one person to Christ, saving them from eternal separation from God (which, again, surely you believe in?), is it not worth it?

Do you disagree with this command? Do you think feeding the homeless for a few days is truly more valuable than saving a person from eternal damnation? Or do you not believe sharing Christ with others so they will be saved is important?

Again, I'm operating from the premise that you believe the Bible - if you don't, then obviously my arguments hold no sway with you.

I'll admit here that my wife and I only gave 5% to charity in 2008. Three-fourths of that probably went to our church with the rest going to a few selected charities, most of which are Christian-based organizations.

I sound bitter, but the primary reason we don't give more is the crippling income tax which we are subject to. I believe that one purpose of the tithe is to help the poor, but I already have thousands of dollars taken from me and redistributed to others through the government in the form of food stamps, welfare checks, medicaid, etc. These social programs completely sanitize the charitable act of any charity. There's no compassion on the part of the giver and no gratitude by the recipient, instead there is resentment and entitlement. Sadly, my church (Catholic) seems to promote such forced wealth redistribution in the name of social justice.

We have an income of $260 thousand. When my wife quits her job later this year after our first child is born, we'll have our income cut in half, but we plan on maintaining our current giving amount which then will become 10%.

Can I vote for not stalking British people please?

Certainly if everyone gave more then the world *could* be a better place, but some of that money will be spent on things that do not contribute to improving the lot of the worst off, nor are they likely to be successful by their own measure e.g. mission trip unlikely to actually result in any conversions.

I heard a statistic that the amount of money it would take to set up the whole world with facilities to provide clean drinking water is less than the amount of money that Americans spend on bottled water in 1 year. If we all gave up bottled water and drank from the tap instead (far less than 10% of our income), we really could change the world. Just think what more could be done if everyone gave what they were able.

"I've often heard it said that if all Christians simply tithed that it would radically change the world. Far fewer people would go hungry, far fewer children would have to live without parents, far less would have to be spent on government programs to help the needy, and so on."


I don't believe this. I think that there would be bigger churches and more "missionary" programs. But not necessarily a significant decrease in the number of hungry, orphans, homeless, and needy people.

A kind person gives more as their income increases, but a person who finds excuses not to give finds even more excuses when their income increases. Churches are the same. The increase would be appropriated to other "funds."

@ Trent D.,

I just think that there are more effective ways to convert more people. Following British students around with pamphlets is not going to get many converts, IMO.

However, providing drinking water to a town in Africa, and talking about God while you are there is MUCH more likely to create converts.

If you gain trust, then your words mean a lot more.


The common theme in a lot of the posts is that people tend to give less because they are disgusted by wasteful spending of their money. When donations to poverty stricken countries are made unfortunately very little of it actually makes it to those in need. It gets stolen or taken to support a corrupt government and/or army which is causing the problem in the first place. I focus my giving to those charities that give the highest percentage of donated funds to the intended recipients (and not "administrative expenses", etc.). The American Institute of Philanthropy and Charity Navigator is a good place to look for ratings of charities.

I don't want to discourage sacrificial giving, but the truth of the matter is that religious organizations already take in 103 billion dollars. With that figure, we spend 85% on internal operations. Of the 15% that's left over, only 3% actually go towards serving and ministering the needs of the unsaved.

So in other words, out of the extra 85 billion from tithing, only 2.55 billion would go towards seeking those who are lost. We would eventually end up spending 72 billion dollars on ourselves. My guess is that the 85 billion would do very little to impact the cause of Christ. The impact we do have already is not because of 103 billion we have already, it's due to dedicated lives.

If church organizations spend enormous amounts on ourselves, where else would individuals have the opportunity to learn generosity? In this case, the apple does not fall far from the tree.

Joe said -

"Tithing has existed for the last 5,000 years and I would argue that life has gotten much better these past 100 years. It wasn't tithing that brought us here, it was modern capitalism, freedom and secular law."

You might argue that, Joe. I bet the 800 million people living in absolute poverty around the world (yes, that's a real figure) would disagree with you.

Modern capitalism has grown GDP worldwide, but the disproportionate allocation of said wealth has only grown in the past 100 years. The rich are richer, the poor are even poorer. Do you call that "freedom"?

America and the global North are not the only people in this world. European colonial powers left a legacy of export monocultures arbitrarily divided on a map as new nation-states post-WWII. Their economies were destroyed, and still struggle to build infrastructure. Europe, and the U.S., do not have a legacy of "freedom" in that part of the world.

As for secular law bettering our living standard - definitely a matter of opinion. Mass GDP growth in the mercantile age/Industrial Revolution was built, quite literally, on the backs of slaves and stripping Third World peoples of their natural resources.

The U.S.'s wealth and prominence, starting from the WWI period and booming post-WWII, first and foremost exists because we were the only country left standing. Ours was the only infrastructure not bombed to smithereens.

Modern capitalism sure creates wealth - I won't argue that. But as a globe, are we better off when the poor are in the same place they were 60 years ago? Nope.

Can tithing solve these problems? Not by itself. But it might grease the wheels in a non-economic fashion - if put to use with the right organizations as stewards and done in concert with the wishes of indigenous peoples.

Thanks for this post. I am teaching a class with a focus this week on tithes and offerings. It is helpful information. I know this is a relatively old post, and maybe no one will read this, but in case... I think the most important part of tithing is recognizing God in your life. God can do what he likes with or without our tithe, but God chooses to use us and what we willingly give of our resources. If we give a part to God that shows we know that it all comes from him, we are likely to use the rest in sharing ways, too, like the casseroles and cars mentioned.
Sue W

I may have the wrong idea here, but my family is financially struggling. My husband and I are unemployed, and barely making it on unemployment. Still, we have monthly church meetings where our congregation asks everyone to tithe more, to show our appreciation to our pastor (who is already pulling in 55k!). On the other hand, my family of 4 is barely making rent, and the only help this church ever gave us, was last Christmas, when they sent us all the donated food that was collected. (Just loved the expired soups, and cases of canned peas, thank you very much!) But this is why it's hard for me to support a way that just makes the rich get rich and the poor get even poorer.

Annette --

If you've been tithing for awhile, I would think now is he time for your church to step up and help you out financially in your time of trouble.

I think that everyone who gets a weekly paycheck should at the very least give some money to charity, or to their local church. Even if you gave $1 or $5 a week, if everyone did it, It would allow a lot of people to be helped. Someday you may be that very person asking for help.

Most people don't know it, but it is the job of the church to help the poor, NOT the government. The church use to do this but they backed off years ago and let the government take over. The church needs to step up and do it again.

I AM DISAPOINTED AT ALL THE UNBELIEF I AM READING ABOUT IN THESE COMMENTS. IT'S NOT OUR JOB TO WORRY ABOUT WHAT THE CHURCH IS DOING WITH THE MONEY WE ARE TITHING WITH; THAT'S BETWEEN THEM AND GOD. GOD IS THE ONE THAT WILL BLESS US FINANCIALLY IF WE TITHE, SO, YES I DO BELIEVE THAT THIS WORLD WOULD BE A LOT BETTER OFF IF WE TITHE AND A LOT LESS PEOPLE WOULD GO HUNGRY. I ALSO DO NOT BELIEVE THERE IS ANYTHING AS "TOO POOR TO TITHE" UNLESS YOU MAKE $0. GOD WILL BLESS THAT 90% A LOT MORE THAT THE 100%. I HAD TITHED UNTIL I GOT MARRIED, BECAUSE, MY HUSBAND DIDN'T BELIEVE IT WAS NECESSARY. TWO WEEKS AGO, AS WE HAVE NOTICED THINGS IN OUR HOME AREN'T GETTING ANY BETTER FINANCIALLY, I CONVINCED HIM TO GIVE IT A CHANCE. THINGS ARE GETTING BETTER ALREADY. SO, PLEASE, IF YOU ARE STRUGGLING FINANCIALLY, GIVE IT A TRY. I PROMISE GOD WILL PROVE HIMSELF TO YOU AS HE SAID HE WOULD DO IN THE BIBLE.THANK YOU AND GOD BLESS.

All I would like to say is I heard a little saying when I was younger and I thought this would be a great place to add it. Give until the Lord stops giving to you. Which really will be never!

Great discussion. I too have always tithed since I was young and somehow even in struggling times there has always been enough, so he'll make it work for you. I would love to find out the bibliography info for the stats mentioned toward the top of the article - the stats for who tithes. Could you possibly let me know where you found that. I am working on a project and always like to make sure I use the original source. Thanks.

Jadee77 --

The numbers come from the article that's linked at the start of the post.

God is not going to "bless you financially" for tithing. It's a good act of generosity, but if anything he would bless you spiritually, and isn't that so much more valuable than money?

He MAY bless you financially. He MAY open up the storehouses of Heaven. That's up to Him. However, the widow's mite shows us that, regardless, we are to give in wealth and in poverty. Be it physical or spiritual, He will bless. If our churches won't hear, I trust He'll take care of it some other way.

The Bible say's in the NEW TESTAMENT that the LOVE OF MONEY is the root to ALL EVIL God so graciously and divinely developed a way to keep us from LOVING money by way of tithes because I believe you cant tithe and love money at the same time the key to tithing is you dont PAY your tithes the BIBLE says bring your tithe to pay tithe is to give grudgingly to bring is to give gracefully I've been tithing for several years I've never been without financial resources even after loosing a job and half the income it dont make since but its true the issue of tithing is the only place in the Bible where God in essence says test me and see if I dont open the windows of Heaven and pour you out a blessing you wont have room to receive may God bless you is my prayer

This is for the post of Annette Wilson ~ I agree with you! The scene today is this:Pastors are living LARGE and I mean Large! They are wearing name brand everything, living in huge homes and taking trips etc. while the church members who are struggling can barely make ends meat and are being hit over the head sunday after sunday about Tithing so we can make them even more rich! I think they need to abstain from the appearance of evil and if I have to question where they got the money to buy that BMW or SUV they are driving while I can't even take a trip 30 miles away without making sure I have enough money for the next two weeks if I do then something is seriously wrong here. We get beaten over the head and told God won't hear our prayers and we won't go up in the rapture( if you believe in it) if we don't tithe. I think the Bible's point is to give ~ that may be of your time and to make sure the poor are fed but all I see pastor's worrying about is bigger church buildings and bringing in more people. I think it's time for us to be the watchman on the wall and call a spade a spade. I won't be browbeaten into giving for all the wrong causes and Lied to anymore!

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