Help a Reader: Asking for a Raise

Here are some questions a reader recently left as a comment on FMF:

I worked as a teacher for several years, but now I'm going back to school full time, so I've been searching for a job that will grant me flexibility to attend daytime classes. I found a job with a private company as a primary tutor/educational consultant. The hours are flexible, but of course they require nights and weekends.

The compensation on the job listing was $30-35k. When I was asked about my salary expectation in the interview, I stated that I thought the advertised salary seemed fair. Since that time I have learned more about the position and realized that I will be bringing work home occasionally. I completed several assessments and sample essays to prove myself and I was told that they were all superb. I feel that I am extremely qualified for the position.

The official offer that I verbally agreed to over the phone was for $32.5, but I feel I should have asked for more. I will be making about $4,000 per year less than when I was a full-time teacher, I will be working about 50 days more per year (I'll no longer be on the school calendar), I will have to pay for my own health benefits (I didn't pay as a teacher), and there won't be a school district paid retirement plan or life insurance policy (I didn't have to pay anything for this).

I feel that I should be making more. I haven't signed the agreement yet. The only thing stopping me from asking for more is the flexibility of the company with my schedule and the fact that I already agreed to a small salary. Is it too late? How much should I ask for? Can I ask for more than the advertised salary?

What are your suggestions for her?

Comments

[Michael]

Probably shouldn't ask for the raise now. The time to negotiate is before accepting the offer. The only exception to this is if something else has changed, for example if you didn't know about the take home work before accepting.

One thing to consider is that having a job that is flexible enough to do school at the same time is worth quite a lot. You'll have to decide if that offsets the extra work you'll do, or if you think you can find a better position elsewhere.

[Ann-Marie]

I agree with Michael. You already accepted the offer over the phone. To change your mind now without some material change in the terms of the offer could put you right out of the running for the position. However, because you haven't yet signed the agreement, you may be able to add some terms of your own. For instance, if I hit X goal by Y date, I am eligible for Z bonus. Or maybe you could ask for a 90-day review and if the employer was happy with your work, you could talk about a 5-10% salary boost.

If you decide to go this route, do it with tact and professionalism, and understand that the potential employer is under no obligation to accept. You should decide beforehand that if the company did not accept your offer if it's still worth it to accept the job. And if the company does accept your offer, make sure to get it in writing.

[JimL]

I would not say anything. Work very hard out of the gate. Come back to them in 3 months and tell them that the work involved is much heavier than expected and you would like them to reconsider your compensation. Prove to them value and they will then respond in a positive fashion.

[Colin]

You could ask, but it would be an awkward conversation. In this economy, job takers don't have much negotiating power. It's not too surprising that the benefits are far less than when you were a full-time teacher - this isn't the same job.

In your position, I'd probably take the $32.5, possibly continue to look for similar work that pays better (assuming you don't sign a noncompete), and know that when you finish your academic program, you will be moving on from this kind of work anyway.

[Otis]

Also remember this the next time you hear somebody saying that teachers don't get paid enough.

Find me another job where you can earn over $40k, only work 2/3 of the year, get every weekend off, have health-insurance, have a fully-funded retirement plan, etc. Add to that you won't have to take pay-cuts (like many of us have) or face risks of your company failing. As we all know there is a trade-off between stability and income potential.

While the pay per year is somewhat low for teachers, I think if you look at the total compensation per hour, then you'll find that it's not as bad as you often hear.

[Apex]

The compensation ship on this job has sailed. After having agreed to the range and then having accepted the actual offer, if you come back now and try to bargain, they are going to feel they got the bait and switch and I don't expect it would go well.

Concerning teacher pay: As Otis said this is a vivid example of why teachers are no where near under paid.

It's interesting how teachers don't want to talk about only working 9 months out of the year because they say they can't get gainful employment in the other 3. However you will notice this person mentions it very directly when arguing why she needs more at this particular non education system job.

Getting summers off is a huge bonus. Very few if any private sector jobs would even consider allowing someone to take summers off unpaid (unless their work was seasonal).

Teachers get more vacations days during the year than most private employees would get in those 9 months, get better health care than most, get as good or better retirements than most, work 9 months out of the year and make very decent wages (after 10 years of experience or so, they are making at the median wage or better in most places for working only 3/4 of the year). Notice this person made $36.5K after working as a teacher for "several years"

I honestly don't understand why teachers get to whine about their wages so regularily and politicians and the media continue to propagate the myth that they are underpaid and somehow that paying them more would improve education. Teachers are doing fine and do a fine job, it's the education system that is messed up.

[Jim]

Teacher compensation varies greatly from location to location. You might get $40k and great benefits in one city/state but make only $28k and pay your own health insurance elsewhere. Teachers in some Northeast states and California average over $60k.

Median earnings for teachers is $49k. Thats equivalent to $65k pay for 12 months work. Median pay for all bachelor degree holders is $77k. So nationally, as a group teachers make a bit less than college degree holders typically do. But their good benefits and job security do compensate for the wage difference.

[Cyn94601]

I just hired 4 employees over the last 3 months. I did have an issue with one employee that asked for a specific amount and I met her halfway. She had worked for us as a temp previously and felt she should have gotten more so she wanted to negotiate. While it wasn't very pleasant, I was more than willing to do this with her. (But she did have a little attitude about that made it more difficult. Lucky for her she had quite a bit of training so I really wanted to make it work)

I think making a request and even couching it to have it be after a specified period of time (like 90 days) is reasonable.

I'm not sure how it work other places, but when I hire, I have a range I can work in. Once that person is hired, it's not often that I'm going to get more money for them unless I've planned that in the budget, so coming back later surely will mean a NO or at least mean waiting another year.

So if they are willing to offer you the job, I don't think it's awful to explain your thinking and why you made a mistake when accepting the first amount but hoped they would reconsider with a new amount. (I would think they might meet you half-way or decide they couldn't accommodate you).

I honestly think that if it's not possible, they would just say so - before deciding that they don't' want you because you asked.

[RC@Thinkyourwaytowealth]

I personally would not have a problem asking for more- I would just tell them that I looked at the numbers a little closer and want to know if the can raise it by X amount. In her case, I would not ask for more than the advertised salary though. Although I guess it depends on if she has any other offers or prospects waiting-since she is going back to school, she may not find anything better for her current situation.

[Apex]

@Jim

I am not sure where you got 77K as median wages for a bachelor's degree but it appears to be just a little over 50K if you average men and women.

Median pay for a bachelor's degree in 2006 was:

Men: $60,910
Women: $45,410

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0883617.html

Source is U.S. Dept of Commerce.

In 2004 Median Primary and Secondary Teacher salaries appeared to be $46,000.

In 2007 Median High School Teacher salaries was $52,000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teacher

It appears to me they are getting paid about median 12 month wages for 9 months of work.

It's interesting to note that women's private median wage for a bachelor's degree was way lower than men. Do we believe nearly every employer in the U.S. just doesn't like women? No, likely women make some family choices along the way that hurt their future earning potential, and choose some careers in greater percentages than men that just pay less. Some jobs are just worth less than other jobs. My job is not worth as much as a lawyer or a doctor or a pharmacist, and I don't whine about it. Teaching just isn't worth as much as some private sector jobs and yet they make at the median and still there is a lot of whining about teacher pay. Teacher's are an important job, so are lots of jobs, but teachers are not underpaid and if their salaries weren't covered by the government no one would care how much people whined about teacher pay. Ever hear a news report whining about private teacher pay? No. And the average private school teacher makes less than their public counter parts (I know some). Yet the public school teacher is somehow under paid? There is ample evidence to show this is not the case.

[Mike Hunt]

You shouldn't have agreed to the verbal offer. Best answer to the verbal offer even if you are delighted is that you need a night to think about it. If the job disappears overnight than it really wasn't meant to be.

The answer to your question is - yes, you can negotiate your salary at this point as you haven't signed anything in writing. You need to provide a good reason though for this request, given you did agree to it on the phone. You want a reason that is better than you changing your mind or that you were making more before as that would have stopped you from verbally accepting. You need to go back and think of a material reason on why your salary should be the same or more. It's probably worth the $4K to go through this exercise.

But if you have no other options you must be ready for their offer of take it or leave it. If they say this I recommend you sleep on it and still accept. You are going to need to soft pedal this and not come on too strong, if you have a good enough reason and say it in non threating way then you may find they have some room to negotiate especially since their range went up to $35K. If you can't get them to move consider the other suggestion for asking for a 90 day review with raise potential based on your starting performance.

Best time to do this is now. Don't sit quiet and be bitter when you first start.

If you want more advice leave me a comment & I'll try my best to respond.

Good luck.

-Mike

[Concojones]

I'm not as experienced as some, but I would also talk to them about it. Mike offered some great ideas on how to get there.